Discussion:
OT: For The Conspiracy Theorists Among Us
(too old to reply)
Veggie Dave
2004-09-15 19:19:20 UTC
Permalink
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
Extreme Racing http://www.veggie-dave.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me
YTC#1
2004-09-15 20:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
And a good programme on last week poo pooed most of the conspiracies
--
Bruce Porter
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250, CB175
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
steve auvache
2004-09-15 20:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by YTC#1
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
And a good programme on last week poo pooed most of the conspiracies
Well it would wouldn't it? You would hardly expect Them to allow it to
be transmitted if it didn't would you?
--
steve auvache
raden
2004-09-16 00:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by YTC#1
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
And a good programme on last week poo pooed most of the conspiracies
Like for example ... a couple of hundred people actually saw it
--
geoff
YTC#1
2004-09-16 12:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by raden
Post by YTC#1
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
And a good programme on last week poo pooed most of the conspiracies
Like for example ... a couple of hundred people actually saw it
So the above says.

No proof.
--
Bruce Porter
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250, CB175
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
tallbloke
2004-09-15 20:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Liiked at that the other week.
Very well produced.

I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did the 757
end up????
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Christofire
2004-09-15 21:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Liiked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did
the 757 end up????
You do realise tim whalen's a spook, and they're monitoring every click
on that site?
--
Christofire DIAABTCOD#1 Daytona 955i
TPPFAUICG#69BONY#10MIRTTH#7IMANASS#2SbS#20BOTAFOT#117
BOMB#15 "But..he looks so *innocent*" HYPO#2
Full throttle for 55 minutes - a hell of a buzz.
tallbloke
2004-09-15 22:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christofire
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Looked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did
the 757 end up????
You do realise tim whalen's a spook, and they're monitoring every
click on that site?
Well they won't traced it back to my dynamically appropriated address.

:-)
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Gavsta
2004-09-15 23:20:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by Christofire
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Looked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did
the 757 end up????
You do realise tim whalen's a spook, and they're monitoring every
click on that site?
Well they won't traced it back to my dynamically appropriated address.
:-)
Why?

Your ISP keeps logs you know.
--
Gavsta.
GSXR600K1
Z750 Race Bike
R6 Race bike (shared)
Champ
2004-09-15 23:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Liiked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did the 757
end up????
And what about the hundreds of witnesses that saw the 757 crash into
the Pentagon?
--
Champ
I don't know, but I've been told, never slow down, you never grow old
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com
tallbloke
2004-09-16 00:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Post by tallbloke
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Liiked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did
the 757 end up????
And what about the hundreds of witnesses that saw the 757 crash into
the Pentagon?
Have you looked at the URL up there?

There are plenty of contradictory witness statements.

"It was a 757"
" It sounded like a missile"
"I saw a 12 seat jet"

Etc etc.

How well corroborated are the 'hundreds of witnesses'. Where did you get
that figure from?

I've got an open mind on it. Big planes don't vapourise when they hit
something. But if it didn't land there, wher'ed it go?
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
The Older Gentleman
2004-09-16 06:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Big planes don't vapourise when they hit
something.
You'd be surprised: they damn nearly do. When a big plane hits something
hard, there really is fuck all left except tiny fragments and mangled
engines.

Consider: a very big plane like a 747 only weighs a very few hundred
tons. Yeah, it's *big* but it's very light. Not much mass. That's why
aircraft fly. In a severe impact, you get millions of tiny pieces.

In the ensuing fire, a lot gets consumed. There isn't much in a plane
that *doesn't* burn. Tail surfaces, some of the wings, etc are made of
composite, for example. Fuselages are metal, and ditto much of the
wings, engines, and stout things like undercarriage legs, but that's
about it.

A few years ago, in the US, a medium-sized jet (I think an MD90) went
straight into farmland when there was a control problem. It went in damn
near vertical. The first people on the scene reported a light aircraft
crash because there was such a small hole and so little debris. It was
some time before they realised they were talking something that seats
100+ people.

When the Turkish Airlines DC10 hit near Paris in 1974, here was
*nothing* left of the plane. It made a big hole in the forest, sure, but
then the plane that hit the Pentagon made a big hole in the building.

This ability of aircraft to disappear in sewvere impacts is well known
by the aviation industry, and generally not known by twats of conspiracy
theorists who think "something's not right".

(As for contradictory witnesses, you're right - this happens all the
time. I mean, think of what people say in the average car/bike
collision!)
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD200 Z200 x2 ST70 DT50MX YTC#3
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 IHABWTJ#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06
BOF#30 WUSS#5 http://www.chateau.murray.dsl.pipex.com/
Simian
2004-09-16 07:19:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by tallbloke
Big planes don't vapourise when they hit
something.
You'd be surprised: they damn nearly do. When a big plane hits something
hard, there really is fuck all left except tiny fragments and mangled
engines.
Consider: a very big plane like a 747 only weighs a very few hundred
tons. Yeah, it's *big* but it's very light. Not much mass. That's why
aircraft fly. In a severe impact, you get millions of tiny pieces.
In the ensuing fire, a lot gets consumed. There isn't much in a plane
that *doesn't* burn. Tail surfaces, some of the wings, etc are made of
composite, for example. Fuselages are metal, and ditto much of the
wings, engines, and stout things like undercarriage legs, but that's
about it.
Most of the metal bits in a plane will burn in a decent fuel powered fire,
cos they're all made of aluminium/magnesium alloys.
tallbloke
2004-09-16 08:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
(As for contradictory witnesses, you're right - this happens all the
time. I mean, think of what people say in the average car/bike
collision!)
'Eee woz doing hungredmilezanour your honour!'
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Alan
2004-09-16 09:44:12 UTC
Permalink
The Older Gentleman wrote:

(snip)
Post by The Older Gentleman
(As for contradictory witnesses, you're right - this happens all the
time. I mean, think of what people say in the average car/bike
collision!)
Back in the late eighties/early nineties I was a controller at RAF
Wittering when we got a call that the BBMF Hurricane was inbound to us
with an engine problem. I made the state 2 call over the station tannoy
and if it had been a Harrier most people would have ignored it but
because the message was "Hurricane, 1 POB" most of the people on camp
stopped work and went outside to take a look. At the subsequent board of
inquiry they had to take almost a thousand statements - most of them
very short. I was talking to one of the board members afterwards and he
said some of the statements were pretty unbelievable, and these were
from people who hang around aircraft for a living. Some said the
aircraft was on fire as it came in - not true as it only caught fire on
impact but apparantly almost a third of the people said it made a left
turn onto the runway and were adament when questioned on this. Not
really possible as the pilot would have had to make a 270 degree left as
opposed to a 90 right to get down. There were lots of other strange
assertions that were just not true and the board member told me this was
quite usual, witnesses all see things differently and some just seem to
imagine things.
--
Alan
ZX9R E2 (Green of course) '03 Tiger 955i (A pleasing shade of green)
JackH
2004-09-16 09:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
(As for contradictory witnesses, you're right - this happens all the
time. I mean, think of what people say in the average car/bike
collision!)
Having watched the flash thingy, *if* what is stated on there is true with
regards to the immediate confiscation by the FBI of security tapes from
surrounding places, such as the Sheraton... one has to wonder why they've
not since surfaced, given there didn't seem to be much holding back in the
US media of shots of the planes coming into 'land' at the WTC, and of the
subsequent aftermath.

--
JackH
tallbloke
2004-09-16 10:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
Having watched the flash thingy, *if* what is stated on there is true
with regards to the immediate confiscation by the FBI of security
tapes from surrounding places, such as the Sheraton... one has to
wonder why they've not since surfaced,
Aha, someone who's actually watched the flash thingy!
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
JackH
2004-09-16 10:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by JackH
Having watched the flash thingy, *if* what is stated on there is true
with regards to the immediate confiscation by the FBI of security
tapes from surrounding places, such as the Sheraton... one has to
wonder why they've not since surfaced,
Aha, someone who's actually watched the flash thingy!
Yup.

Main thing that strikes me, is that the Pentagon isn't your average
building, strength wise... hence anything hitting it will have a tougher
time than normal.

'Open mind', is my current thinking on this particular old chestnut.

I know for a fact that planes hit the WTC, because I saw the footage (1)...

Bloody good film I thought, what with all the special effects etc., as I
came home and put the TV on, mid afternoon on the day in question... and
then I started to think 'Hang on a minute, they don't normally put good
films on, mid afternoon, on terrestrial'... and then I realised it was the
news.

(1) Although I could just question that as something cooked up by a film
studio, if it weren't so obvious it had actually happened, *if* I were
looking for more ways of picking holes in a Government I didn't particularly
like, and if I were particularly thick.

--
JackH
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
Yup.
Main thing that strikes me, is that the Pentagon isn't your average
building, strength wise... hence anything hitting it will have a
tougher time than normal.
'Open mind', is my current thinking on this particular old chestnut.
I know for a fact that planes hit the WTC, because I saw the footage (1)...
Bloody good film I thought, what with all the special effects etc.,
as I came home and put the TV on, mid afternoon on the day in
question... and then I started to think 'Hang on a minute, they don't
normally put good films on, mid afternoon, on terrestrial'... and
then I realised it was the news.
(1) Although I could just question that as something cooked up by a
film studio, if it weren't so obvious it had actually happened, *if*
I were looking for more ways of picking holes in a Government I
didn't particularly like, and if I were particularly thick.
I turned the TV on around the time of the 1st strike and watched the second
live. Sitting on the bed, spilled my T on the covers I did, disaster it was.
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
Grimly Curmudgeon
2004-09-16 17:10:09 UTC
Permalink
It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
Post by 'Hog
I turned the TV on around the time of the 1st strike and watched the second
live. Sitting on the bed, spilled my T on the covers I did, disaster it was.
It's a JFK moment for the current generation.
I heard about the 1st crash on the radio and was in a customer's house
for the second, seeing it live.
There was a chorus of 'Fuck!' as it happened. Quite impressive, really.
--
Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10
sweller
2004-09-16 17:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grimly Curmudgeon
Post by 'Hog
I turned the TV on around the time of the 1st strike and watched the
second live. Sitting on the bed, spilled my T on the covers I did,
disaster it was.
It's a JFK moment for the current generation.
I heard about the 1st crash on the radio and was in a customer's house
for the second, seeing it live.
There was a chorus of 'Fuck!' as it happened. Quite impressive, really.
I was at the TUC trying to stop a retired Assistant General Secretary
from heckling Tony Blair and then trying to avert a punch up when Tony
(my man) told Rodney Bickerstaff what he thought of him and Tony Blair
"you're as weak as piss..".

"...and you can fuck the yanks as well." as horrified LP aparatachiks ran
for cover. Ken Cameron kindly helped us return our man to the Aslef
"Office".

Didn't see Tony Benn. Great stuff!
--
Simon

http://www.sweller.co.uk/sob/
Wizard
2004-09-16 19:00:20 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, Grimly
Curmudgeon
(***@hotmail.com) says...

(Of 9/11)
Post by Grimly Curmudgeon
It's a JFK moment for the current generation.
I heard about the 1st crash on the radio and was in a customer's house
for the second, seeing it live.
There was a chorus of 'Fuck!' as it happened. Quite impressive, really.
Wrong.

Swearing Isn't Big And It Isn't Clever.
--
<8P Wizard
Suzuki GS550 "I like that. Nicely shite" - TOG
Golf GTi 16v
ANORAK#17b BOMB#19 BOTAFOT#138 BREast#5 COFF#24
COSOC#8 DFV#11 STG#1
The Older Gentleman
2004-09-16 18:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
I turned the TV on around the time of the 1st strike and watched the second
live. Sitting on the bed, spilled my T on the covers I did, disaster it was.
I read this post and thought it was Auvache posting for a moment.
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD200 Z200 x2 ST70 DT50MX YTC#3
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 IHABWTJ#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06
BOF#30 WUSS#5 http://www.chateau.murray.dsl.pipex.com/
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 08:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
I've got an open mind on it. Big planes don't vapourise when they hit
something. But if it didn't land there, wher'ed it go?
Did you seen any spare wings or fuselages knocking about in the photos
of the aftermath of the WTC, then?

Cause I didn't.
--
Ben Blaney
Ginge
2004-09-16 06:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Post by tallbloke
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Liiked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did the 757
end up????
And what about the hundreds of witnesses that saw the 757 crash into
the Pentagon?
I recall at the time CNN reporting "a small passenger plane has hit the
pentagon"
The Older Gentleman
2004-09-16 06:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ginge
Post by Champ
Post by tallbloke
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
Liiked at that the other week.
Very well produced.
I can believe it was a small plane rather than a 757, but where did the 757
end up????
And what about the hundreds of witnesses that saw the 757 crash into
the Pentagon?
I recall at the time CNN reporting "a small passenger plane has hit the
pentagon"
See my posting....
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD200 Z200 x2 ST70 DT50MX YTC#3
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 IHABWTJ#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06
BOF#30 WUSS#5 http://www.chateau.murray.dsl.pipex.com/
tallbloke
2004-09-16 08:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Ginge
I recall at the time CNN reporting "a small passenger plane has hit
the pentagon"
See my posting....
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite the
script.

Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Andy Wegg
2004-09-16 09:19:53 UTC
Permalink
"tallbloke" muttered
Post by tallbloke
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
They didn't. The remains of one was found inside the building and the
other ricocheted over and was found the other side of the building.

Allegedly, of course. I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident -
a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about 200
yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house nearby was
burnt out but there was very little on the surface to indicate a plane
had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case too.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
'Hog
2004-09-16 09:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Wegg
"tallbloke" muttered
Post by tallbloke
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Bollocks
Post by Andy Wegg
They didn't. The remains of one was found inside the building and the
other ricocheted over and was found the other side of the building.
Allegedly, of course. I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft
accident - a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit
about 200 yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the
house nearby was burnt out but there was very little on the surface
to indicate a plane had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case
too.
Anyone remember the vid of the Phantom jet being piled into a concrete block
at 500mph on a rocket powered sledge? it doesn't disintegrate, it vaporises!
I was at Lockerbie the morning of Pam Am 103, huge hole in ground but how
much wreckage in it? www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5260/crater.jpg not a
lot. That was an entire 747 wing structure. 103 had fallen from altitude so
the parts would have impacted at, or a bit over, terminal velocity. Flight
77 ran into the Pentagon at flight speed.

I used to get interested by the JFK conspiracy theories until I watched a
real marksman with the actual weapon type replicate the supposedly
impossible shots and state that if wasn't so hard. There was all the "magic
bullet" shite as well, multiple trajectories, never once noting that bullets
tend to fragment when they hit bones, even jacketed ammunition. It was also
hidden away in the data that their campaign had accepted $10million from
certain "connected" Chicago businessmen but one of John's first acts was to
put Bobby in charge of a special anti-mob task force.
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
tallbloke
2004-09-16 10:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
There was all the "magic
bullet" shite as well, multiple trajectories, never once noting that
bullets tend to fragment when they hit bones, even jacketed
ammunition.
But the magic bullet was found unscathed on the stretcher at the Hospital
Hog...
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by 'Hog
There was all the "magic
bullet" shite as well, multiple trajectories, never once noting that
bullets tend to fragment when they hit bones, even jacketed
ammunition.
But the magic bullet was found unscathed on the stretcher at the
Hospital Hog...
Bit of hardened chewing gum, innit
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 09:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Wegg
I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident -
a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about 200
yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house nearby was
burnt out but there was very little on the surface to indicate a plane
had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case too.
I'd love to see a plane crash.
--
Ben Blaney
JackH
2004-09-16 09:50:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Andy Wegg
I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident -
a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about 200
yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house nearby was
burnt out but there was very little on the surface to indicate a plane
had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case too.
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?

--
JackH
sweller
2004-09-16 10:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Funnily enough I always have a secret wish for the plane I'm in to crash
during take off: "to see what it'd be like".

I have to be very careful and concentrate very hard when I'm near
spinning blades.
--
Simon

http://www.sweller.co.uk/sob/
JackH
2004-09-16 10:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Funnily enough I always have a secret wish for the plane I'm in to crash
during take off: "to see what it'd be like".
I have to be very careful and concentrate very hard when I'm near
spinning blades.
Well... in all seriousness, there are more prolonged and painful ways to
kick the mortal bucket.

--
JackH
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:05:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Funnily enough I always have a secret wish for the plane I'm in to
crash during take off: "to see what it'd be like".
I have to be very careful and concentrate very hard when I'm near
spinning blades.
I was pondering that during take off on the way over to EOSM. I wondered if,
as the fuel load caught fire, I could zip up my bike jacket, get my Arai out
of the locker above, get it and the gloves on, then scramble out the rear
exit over the burning bodies of those less prepared without suffering 3rd
degree burns. Naturally I had already taken the precaution of wearing my
Daytona's.

In future I will only fly in full race leather, helmet and gloves on,
wearing fire retardant M&S underwear.
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
porl
2004-09-16 10:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Funnily enough I always have a secret wish for the plane I'm in to crash
during take off: "to see what it'd be like".
I have to be very careful and concentrate very hard when I'm near
spinning blades.
I hate flying. When I passed my das and was waiting for my new bike to come
in I had a jolly to New Orleans. Hideous storms on the way in lft me a bit
shaken. And then just before we left we saw Concorde had crashed in Paris.

"If you look out of the right window you should see the town of Gonesse, and
on the left, beyond the flaming engine, is the luxurious Relais Bleu hotel
where we will shortly be landing. If you still wish to make use of the duty
free trolly let one of our staff know.""
JackH
2004-09-16 10:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
Post by sweller
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Funnily enough I always have a secret wish for the plane I'm in to crash
during take off: "to see what it'd be like".
I have to be very careful and concentrate very hard when I'm near
spinning blades.
I hate flying. When I passed my das and was waiting for my new bike to come
in I had a jolly to New Orleans. Hideous storms on the way in lft me a bit
shaken. And then just before we left we saw Concorde had crashed in Paris.
"If you look out of the right window you should see the town of Gonesse, and
on the left, beyond the flaming engine, is the luxurious Relais Bleu hotel
where we will shortly be landing. If you still wish to make use of the duty
free trolly let one of our staff know.""
On my return from Australia earlier this year, the sods sat me just behind
the wings... so my view out the window, whilst a very pretty view of the
Iranian mountains etc., (given the turbulence at that time), was of the
wing, flapping about as if that motion was what was keeping us up in the
air!

I kept thinking about things like 'Oh look, it's metal that's regularly
subjected to big temperature changes... it's going to break off in a mo'.

You just have to either rape the drinks trolley til you pass out, and / or
keep telling yourself how thousands of flights land safely everyday.

--
JackH
porl
2004-09-16 10:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
You just have to either rape the drinks trolley til you pass out,
Amusing imagery there.
Post by JackH
keep telling yourself how thousands of flights land safely everyday.
Nothing so far has got the best of my imagination. My doctor is incredulous
when I demand drugs. "But you ride a motorbike into central London!" . If I
could fly the plane myself maybe it would be different, I just hate being a
passenger. Mind you, I used to love flying.
JackH
2004-09-16 10:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
Post by JackH
You just have to either rape the drinks trolley til you pass out,
Amusing imagery there.
And nigh on impossible in economy class, the tight feckers!

Yes, I did enjoy the free upgrade to business class on the first leg between
Perth and Dubai...
Post by porl
Post by JackH
keep telling yourself how thousands of flights land safely everyday.
Nothing so far has got the best of my imagination. My doctor is incredulous
when I demand drugs. "But you ride a motorbike into central London!" .
Yes, main difference being you are, to a certain extent, in control of your
own destiny.

I love hacking through central London on a bike, but I'm probably an
accident waiting to happen, hence why I don't do it as much as I used to.
Post by porl
If I could fly the plane myself maybe it would be different, I just hate
being a
Post by porl
passenger. Mind you, I used to love flying.
Like I said, 'in control of your own destiny'.

I hear they have some good flight schools in the US, maybe you'd like to
enrol with one of those?

--
JackH
porl
2004-09-16 10:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
I hear they have some good flight schools in the US, maybe you'd like to
enrol with one of those?
I'd have to get there first. Just my luck to be on a hijacked plane while I
was travelling to hijack school.
JackH
2004-09-16 10:34:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
Post by JackH
I hear they have some good flight schools in the US, maybe you'd like to
enrol with one of those?
I'd have to get there first. Just my luck to be on a hijacked plane while I
was travelling to hijack school.
A crash course in flying.

Suits you sir, suits you.

--
JackH
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 10:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
I hate flying.
That's neg. You should come out here for the MotoGP with Simian.
It'll be a laugh.
--
Ben Blaney
porl
2004-09-16 10:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by porl
I hate flying.
That's neg. You should come out here for the MotoGP with Simian.
It'll be a laugh.
It would indeed. But I've done one live gp this year and that's enough.
Plus, I've spent time with Simian as well this year. If I'm going to crash
the last thing I want to be the last thing I see is that lank-haired grebo.
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
that lank-haired grebo.
Aha, I've always pictured Simian that way
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
porl
2004-09-16 10:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
Post by porl
that lank-haired grebo.
Aha, I've always pictured Simian that way
He'll deny it. They always do.
tallbloke
2004-09-16 10:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Funnily enough I always have a secret wish for the plane I'm in to
crash during take off: "to see what it'd be like".
I have to be very careful and concentrate very hard when I'm near
spinning blades.
Can I have your timetable so I can get on a different train please. ;-)
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 10:12:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Andy Wegg
I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident -
a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about 200
yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house nearby was
burnt out but there was very little on the surface to indicate a plane
had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case too.
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Yeah, why not. There are worse ways to go.
--
Ben Blaney
JackH
2004-09-16 10:17:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Andy Wegg
I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident -
a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about 200
yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house nearby was
burnt out but there was very little on the surface to indicate a plane
had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case too.
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Yeah, why not. There are worse ways to go.
Yup.

Someone I know was questioning my desire to get another bike the other
day... they said the usual bollocks 'Nasty dangerous things, you'll die',
etc.

And I said 'Yes, and?'.

So long as I didn't die because I'd ridden like a particularly stupid cunt,
and therefore, for no good reason, then so what...

I'd just hope that it was a quick death, that's all.

--
JackH
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by JackH
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Andy Wegg
I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident -
a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about
200 yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house
nearby was burnt out but there was very little on the surface to
indicate a plane had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case
too.
I'd love to see a plane crash.
From the inside?
Yeah, why not. There are worse ways to go.
Yup.
Someone I know was questioning my desire to get another bike the other
day... they said the usual bollocks 'Nasty dangerous things, you'll
die', etc.
And I said 'Yes, and?'.
So long as I didn't die because I'd ridden like a particularly stupid
cunt, and therefore, for no good reason, then so what...
I'd just hope that it was a quick death, that's all.
Well yes if it impacts the ground at flight speed. An end of runway burning
wing, passenger BBQ doesn't sound quite as much fun, though if one has a bag
of Marshmallows handy one could toast and scoff a couple before it gets too
intense.
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
porl
2004-09-16 10:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
Well yes if it impacts the ground at flight speed. An end of runway burning
wing, passenger BBQ doesn't sound quite as much fun, though if one has a bag
of Marshmallows handy one could toast and scoff a couple before it gets too
intense.
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the religious
maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived down to 10,000 ft
and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into the sea. That must have
been fun for all concerned.
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
Post by 'Hog
Well yes if it impacts the ground at flight speed. An end of runway
burning wing, passenger BBQ doesn't sound quite as much fun, though
if one has a bag of Marshmallows handy one could toast and scoff a
couple before it gets too intense.
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the
religious maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived
down to 10,000 ft and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into
the sea. That must have been fun for all concerned.
Link?
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
porl
2004-09-16 10:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
Post by 'Hog
Well yes if it impacts the ground at flight speed. An end of runway
burning wing, passenger BBQ doesn't sound quite as much fun, though
if one has a bag of Marshmallows handy one could toast and scoff a
couple before it gets too intense.
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the
religious maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived
down to 10,000 ft and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into
the sea. That must have been fun for all concerned.
Link?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/egyptair/article/0,2763,330000,00.html

Doesn't have all the details I remember being reported at the time but
that's the one.
'Hog
2004-09-16 10:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by porl
http://www.guardian.co.uk/egyptair/article/0,2763,330000,00.html
Doesn't have all the details I remember being reported at the time but
that's the one.
Eeek I remember now.
It cant be beyond the bounds of software development to lock the controls
out from deranged pilot manoeuvres.
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
porl
2004-09-16 10:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
Post by porl
http://www.guardian.co.uk/egyptair/article/0,2763,330000,00.html
Doesn't have all the details I remember being reported at the time but
that's the one.
Eeek I remember now.
It cant be beyond the bounds of software development to lock the controls
out from deranged pilot manoeuvres.
How to differentiate between deranged pilot and avoidance manouvres.

I remember it being reported that Howard Hughes refused to ever fly
commercially after listening to conversations between pilots and traffic
controllers when he was a child.
Andrewr At Work
2004-09-16 10:44:54 UTC
Permalink
"porl" <***@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@uni-berlin.de

<SNIP>
Post by porl
I remember it being reported that Howard Hughes refused to ever fly
commercially after listening to conversations between pilots and traffic
controllers when he was a child.
Seems unlikely; radio air-traffic control didn't appear until the 30's,
by which time Hughes would have been in his mid-20s.

Ha! I piss on your parade, just because I can!
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
porl
2004-09-16 10:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
<SNIP>
Post by porl
I remember it being reported that Howard Hughes refused to ever fly
commercially after listening to conversations between pilots and traffic
controllers when he was a child.
Seems unlikely; radio air-traffic control didn't appear until the 30's,
by which time Hughes would have been in his mid-20s.
I can't find anything to back it up either. I did read it somewhere though.
Champ
2004-09-16 11:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
Post by 'Hog
Well yes if it impacts the ground at flight speed. An end of runway
burning
Post by 'Hog
wing, passenger BBQ doesn't sound quite as much fun, though if one has a
bag
Post by 'Hog
of Marshmallows handy one could toast and scoff a couple before it gets
too
Post by 'Hog
intense.
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the religious
maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived down to 10,000 ft
and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into the sea. That must have
been fun for all concerned.
Sounds great - where do I sign?
--
Champ
I don't know, but I've been told, never slow down, you never grow old
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 12:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Post by porl
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the religious
maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived down to 10,000 ft
and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into the sea. That must have
been fun for all concerned.
Sounds great - where do I sign?
Right *here* for the Gixxer, and *here* for the Turbo. Thanks.
--
Ben Blaney
Nigel Eaton
2004-09-16 12:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Champ
Post by porl
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the religious
maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived down to 10,000 ft
and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into the sea. That must have
been fun for all concerned.
Sounds great - where do I sign?
Right *here* for the Gixxer, and *here* for the Turbo. Thanks.
Oh arse. Looks like my only chance is the Russian helicopter. Still, I
reckon that's a pretty good bet.
--
Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 12:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Eaton
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Champ
Post by porl
What about that flight out of the States a while ago where the religious
maniac of a co pilot wrestled control and the plane dived down to 10,000 ft
and then went back to 30,000 before plummeting into the sea. That must have
been fun for all concerned.
Sounds great - where do I sign?
Right *here* for the Gixxer, and *here* for the Turbo. Thanks.
Oh arse. Looks like my only chance is the Russian helicopter. Still, I
reckon that's a pretty good bet.
Check the names on the paperwork, Nigel, I haven't cut you out - I
just wanted to make sure I got his pawprint before someone else did.
You knew Uncle Ben would look after you, didn't you.
--
Ben Blaney
Nigel Eaton
2004-09-16 12:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Nigel Eaton
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by Champ
Sounds great - where do I sign?
Right *here* for the Gixxer, and *here* for the Turbo. Thanks.
Oh arse. Looks like my only chance is the Russian helicopter. Still, I
reckon that's a pretty good bet.
Check the names on the paperwork, Nigel, I haven't cut you out - I
just wanted to make sure I got his pawprint before someone else did.
You knew Uncle Ben would look after you, didn't you.
Ben, I am genuinely touched. What a nice man you are.

It's OK, I won't tell anyone else.
--
Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Switters
2004-09-16 14:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Eaton
Post by Ben Blaney
Check the names on the paperwork, Nigel, I haven't cut you out - I
just wanted to make sure I got his pawprint before someone else did.
You knew Uncle Ben would look after you, didn't you.
Ben, I am genuinely touched. What a nice man you are.
Heh, suckerrrrr.
Mike
2004-09-16 14:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nigel Eaton
Post by Ben Blaney
You knew Uncle Ben would look after you, didn't you.
Ben, I am genuinely touched. What a nice man you are.
I saw 'im. I saw that man touch him.

<fx:wonder if he's got any puppies at home?>
--
Mike Hall
R1100S
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 15:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Nigel Eaton
Post by Ben Blaney
You knew Uncle Ben would look after you, didn't you.
Ben, I am genuinely touched. What a nice man you are.
I saw 'im. I saw that man touch him.
<fx:wonder if he's got any puppies at home?>
Can't you read?
--
Ben Blaney
Andy Wegg
2004-09-16 10:51:23 UTC
Permalink
"Ben Blaney" muttered
Post by Ben Blaney
I'd love to see a plane crash.
Recall it as it t'were yesterday, though in fact it were 1978.

Two Harriers collided about 5 miles south of the town. One went
straight down and speared into a field. The other sort of curved round
in a lazy spiral and hit a house - 2 killed indoors. Huge bang and a
smoke mushroom as the fuel vaporised. Both pilots banged out and came
down by parachute, while the air was full of bits of shiny stuff
floating down (anti-radar chaff, one presumes).

I saw pretty much all of it as I heard the bang as they collided and
looked up to see the one that hit the town curving away. Remember being
vaguely worried that it was coming right at us, but realised that if it
was, there wsn't much I could do about it.

Also saw a WW2 fighter plane crash at the Biggin Hill airshow a couple
of years ago. It had been looking a bit shonky through the display as
the pilot had seemed to fall out of a loop earlier on. Anyway, he did
it again, stalled and couldn't correct in time. Went striaght in, aon
the far side of the runway, but right opposite where I was standing.
Pilot killed. Not nice to have witnessed, TBH.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
tallbloke
2004-09-16 10:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Wegg
"tallbloke" muttered
Post by tallbloke
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
They didn't. The remains of one was found inside the building and the
other ricocheted over and was found the other side of the building.
Can it be verified that they were 757 engines at this stage?
Post by Andy Wegg
Allegedly, of course. I've seen the aftermath of an aircraft accident
- a Harrier came down in the town I used to live in and hit about 200
yards from my mum's house. It made a big crater and the house nearby
was burnt out but there was very little on the surface to indicate a
plane had hit. The engine also "vanished in that case too.
Harriers are pretty much an engine with wings on anyway. And military
jets prolly use more magnesium alloy than civvy ones tho' thats a guess.
I'm just keeping an open mind on it because the observables seem more
consistent with say a 12 seater jet than a 757.
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Andy Wegg
2004-09-16 11:50:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by Andy Wegg
"tallbloke" muttered
Post by tallbloke
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
They didn't. The remains of one was found inside the building and the
other ricocheted over and was found the other side of the building.
Can it be verified that they were 757 engines at this stage?
No idea. I would imagine that was done by the FAA investigation.
Post by tallbloke
Harriers are pretty much an engine with wings on anyway. And military
jets prolly use more magnesium alloy than civvy ones tho' thats a guess.
I'm just keeping an open mind on it because the observables seem more
consistent with say a 12 seater jet than a 757.
As is any aircraft just an engine with wings, really. 757s just have a
much bigger hole in the middle. They collapse down into quite a small
heap of debris, compared with the volume of the original. And of course
70s-built harriers aren't the exotic creatures of today - mostly just
ally. There was a test done some time ago, crashing an F4 into a
concrete wall - http://www.sandia.gov/media/NRgallery00-03.htm The
photos show that there airframe more or less telescopes into the wall
and most of the damage was apparently done by the mass of the engines,
which is much as happened at the Pentagon.

I'd treat witness statements with scepticism. Most witnesses can't even
recognise what sort of car is involved in an accident so few would be
able to say for sure what aircraft it was in the short time between
coming into few (it was at rooftop height, ISTR) and vanishing into a
fireball.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Wizard
2004-09-16 18:48:51 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@mygate.mailgate.org>,
Andy Wegg
Post by Andy Wegg
Post by tallbloke
Post by Andy Wegg
"tallbloke" muttered
Post by tallbloke
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
They didn't. The remains of one was found inside the building and the
other ricocheted over and was found the other side of the building.
Can it be verified that they were 757 engines at this stage?
No idea. I would imagine that was done by the FAA investigation.
Many engine internals have serial numbers engraved on them, and the
record-keeping is done in enough detail to get an ANORAK# with Swords
and Oak Leaves. If anything survived, it should be possible to trace it
back.
--
<8P Wizard
Suzuki GS550 "I like that. Nicely shite" - TOG
Golf GTi 16v
ANORAK#17b BOMB#19 BOTAFOT#138 BREast#5 COFF#24
COSOC#8 DFV#11 STG#1
platypus
2004-09-16 09:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Ginge
I recall at the time CNN reporting "a small passenger plane has hit
the pentagon"
See my posting....
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite the
script.
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Some of the speculation was totally lame.

"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the passengers
were given new identities."

Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op, they'd all
get new identities as fish food.
--
Platypus

(crocked)
sweller
2004-09-16 09:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by platypus
"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the
passengers were given new identities."
Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op, they'd
all get new identities as fish food.
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
--
Simon

http://www.sweller.co.uk/sob/
Ben Blaney
2004-09-16 09:42:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by platypus
"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the
passengers were given new identities."
Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op, they'd
all get new identities as fish food.
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
And a lot more fun.
--
Ben Blaney
Pip
2004-09-16 09:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by platypus
"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the
passengers were given new identities."
Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op, they'd
all get new identities as fish food.
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
Perhaps the US gummint had the plane shot down before it could be
crashed into the heart of their security network - and now feel the
need to cover up having murdered 300 people.
--
Pip, Ex - Hairy Gfedcker. RF 900RR, Ruff and Rattly.
WS* DFWAG#0 IbW#27* DIAABTCOD#15 GP#0 EKP FUB#4 MKA+E#3
ANORAK#8 MIRTTH#15 BOTAFOT/F#47/34a BONY#13 KotMIB# <space>
UKRMRM#14 TWA#2 BOMB#0
'Hog
2004-09-16 09:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pip
Post by sweller
Post by platypus
"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the
passengers were given new identities."
Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op,
they'd all get new identities as fish food.
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
Perhaps the US gummint had the plane shot down before it could be
crashed into the heart of their security network - and now feel the
need to cover up having murdered 300 people.
LoL you credit them with *that* degree of competency?
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
tallbloke
2004-09-16 10:20:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pip
Perhaps the US gummint had the plane shot down before it could be
crashed into the heart of their security network - and now feel the
need to cover up having murdered 300 people.
I can see they'd want a cover story if that was the case...
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Phil Launchbury
2004-09-16 12:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by Pip
Perhaps the US gummint had the plane shot down before it could be
crashed into the heart of their security network - and now feel the
need to cover up having murdered 300 people.
I can see they'd want a cover story if that was the case...
Nah - this is the US government. It's their constitutional right to kill
as many people as they like..

Phil
--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
Triumph Tiger 955i
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'
platypus
2004-09-16 10:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by platypus
"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the
passengers were given new identities."
Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op, they'd
all get new identities as fish food.
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
*Exactly*.

Occam's Razor.
--
Platypus

(crocked)
tallbloke
2004-09-16 10:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by platypus
Post by sweller
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
*Exactly*.
Occam's Razor.
The simplest explainations always appeal to the simple?
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
platypus
2004-09-16 11:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by platypus
Post by sweller
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into the
building in the first place?
*Exactly*.
Occam's Razor.
The simplest explainations always appeal to the simple?
Balance of probabilities. Simplest explanation is most likely to be true.
--
Platypus

(crocked)
tallbloke
2004-09-16 11:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by platypus
Post by tallbloke
Post by platypus
Post by sweller
Wouldn't it be so much easier to just ram the fucking plane into
the building in the first place?
*Exactly*.
Occam's Razor.
The simplest explainations always appeal to the simple?
Balance of probabilities. Simplest explanation is most likely to be true.
Whooooooooooooooooooosh.


'Stahhriiiike Wuuuuunna'
:-)
--
tallbloke B.A. Hons Phil/HST

Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
'Hog
2004-09-16 09:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by platypus
Post by tallbloke
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Ginge
I recall at the time CNN reporting "a small passenger plane has hit
the pentagon"
See my posting....
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite
the script.
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Some of the speculation was totally lame.
"The plane flew off somewhere to a secret location, and all the
passengers were given new identities."
Yeah, right. They're all witnesses. If I was running the op, they'd
all get new identities as fish food.
The Yanks couldn't even keep the secrets of the atomic and H-bombs secret,
so Roswell/Area 51/9/11 theories are bollocks. Stuff like the F-117A and
A-21 remained largely out of the public eye but only because there was
nothing terribly amazing about them (to the public eye) and very small
development teams were involved.
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
TOG@toil, chateau.murray@btinternet.com,
2004-09-16 10:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Ginge
I recall at the time CNN reporting "a small passenger plane has
hit
Post by tallbloke
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Ginge
the pentagon"
See my posting....
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite
the
Post by tallbloke
script.
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Tallbloke, with respect[1], you are talking about something which you
evidently know fuck all about[2], in a forum where there are many
posters who know a great deal about the subject.

Want a shovel for that hole? ;-)

[1] Usenet-speak for "you twonk"
[2] OTOH, this is ukrm, so carry on.....
Andrewr At Work
2004-09-16 11:00:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@toil, ***@btinternet.com,
Post by tallbloke
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite
the
Post by tallbloke
script.
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Tallbloke, with respect[1], you are talking about something which you
evidently know fuck all about[2], in a forum where there are many
posters who know a great deal about the subject.
Yes, but there's a web-site that says it didn't happen, so it _must_ be
true.
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
tallbloke
2004-09-16 11:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
Yes, but there's a web-site that says it didn't happen, so it _must_
be true.
Like I said. I'm keeping an open mind on the issue.
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
Andrewr At Work
2004-09-16 11:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by Andrewr At Work
Yes, but there's a web-site that says it didn't happen, so it _must_
be true.
Like I said. I'm keeping an open mind on the issue.
My theory is that Jesus never died (as discussed here last week), but
using the assumed name of "Jack T. Ripper" he was able to board the
Titanic in 1912 and sink it along with the evidence that is was carrying
relating to a 10,000 year old civilisation which built the pyramids. Of
course the evidence in question had been witnessed by the CIA who passed
the information on to JFK, which is why Jesus had to shot him in 1963,
using his godly powers to guide the "magic" bullet.

After the death of JKF Jesus went underground until he resurfaced to
recruit Elvis to his campaign. Elvis spent 24 years undergoing
reconstructive surgery to make him look Arabic before piloting the 2nd
aircraft to crash into the WTC. Of course this was just a cover for
Jesus, who was flying an alien spaceship taken from Area 51, into the
side of the Pentagon to retrieve photographs that clearly showed him
forging the Hitler diaries.

How does that sound?
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
tallbloke
2004-09-16 11:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
How does that sound?
Like you've read the Illuminatus trilogy on acid once too often :-)
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
steve auvache
2004-09-16 11:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
My theory is that Jesus never died (as discussed here last week), but
using the assumed name of "Jack T. Ripper" he was able to board the
Titanic in 1912 and sink it along with the evidence that is was carrying
relating to a 10,000 year old civilisation which built the pyramids. Of
course the evidence in question had been witnessed by the CIA who passed
the information on to JFK, which is why Jesus had to shot him in 1963,
using his godly powers to guide the "magic" bullet.
After the death of JKF Jesus went underground until he resurfaced to
recruit Elvis to his campaign. Elvis spent 24 years undergoing
reconstructive surgery to make him look Arabic before piloting the 2nd
aircraft to crash into the WTC. Of course this was just a cover for
Jesus, who was flying an alien spaceship taken from Area 51, into the
side of the Pentagon to retrieve photographs that clearly showed him
forging the Hitler diaries.
How does that sound?
Uncannily similar to what I have been saying for years, except you left
out the bit about all the missing Nazi gold. Or didn't you know about
that?
--
steve auvache
Andrewr At Work
2004-09-16 11:40:08 UTC
Permalink
<SNIP>
Post by steve auvache
Post by Andrewr At Work
How does that sound?
Uncannily similar to what I have been saying for years, except you left
out the bit about all the missing Nazi gold. Or didn't you know about
that?
Ssssh! Don't mention the Nazi Gold you fool, you'll have the Carlyle
Corporation down on us like a ton of bricks.
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
platypus
2004-09-16 11:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
Post by tallbloke
Post by Andrewr At Work
Yes, but there's a web-site that says it didn't happen, so it _must_
be true.
Like I said. I'm keeping an open mind on the issue.
My theory is that Jesus never died (as discussed here last week), but
using the assumed name of "Jack T. Ripper" he was able to board the
Titanic in 1912 and sink it along with the evidence that is was
carrying relating to a 10,000 year old civilisation which built the
pyramids. Of course the evidence in question had been witnessed by
the CIA who passed the information on to JFK, which is why Jesus had
to shot him in 1963, using his godly powers to guide the "magic"
bullet.
After the death of JKF Jesus went underground until he resurfaced to
recruit Elvis to his campaign. Elvis spent 24 years undergoing
reconstructive surgery to make him look Arabic before piloting the 2nd
aircraft to crash into the WTC. Of course this was just a cover for
Jesus, who was flying an alien spaceship taken from Area 51, into the
side of the Pentagon to retrieve photographs that clearly showed him
forging the Hitler diaries.
How does that sound?
Complete bollocks. The Titanic and the Olympic had an identity swap when
the Olympic put into Belfast for repairs. It was the Olympic, which had
massive damage to her keel, that was sunk in 1912. Biggest insurance scam
of modern times before the WTC.

Anyway, Jesus is scared of flying.
--
Platypus

(crocked)
Andrewr At Work
2004-09-16 11:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by platypus
Complete bollocks. The Titanic and the Olympic had an identity swap when
the Olympic put into Belfast for repairs. It was the Olympic, which had
massive damage to her keel, that was sunk in 1912. Biggest insurance scam
of modern times before the WTC.
I heard that theory as well, if you keep on digging you find that the
"Olympic" later had an identity swap with a pedallo off Blackpool beach
and that this identity was then swapped with the Herald of Free
Enterprise (which had its own identity swapped with that of Jack Ruby to
protect him from mob recriminations for shooting Lee Harvey Oswald
[Formerly Lord Lucan]).

If you do a cross check of passangers on the "Titanic" and on the
"Herald of Free Enterprise" you will find that _none_ of them match ...
what are the chances of that, eh?
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Preston Kemp
2004-09-16 19:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by platypus
Complete bollocks. The Titanic and the Olympic had an identity swap
when the Olympic put into Belfast for repairs. It was the Olympic,
which had massive damage to her keel, that was sunk in 1912. Biggest
insurance scam of modern times before the WTC.
Curiously enough, that's exactly the subject of tonight's conspiracy
(Sky One 9pm).
--
Preston.

http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uk_tiger_rides
Stoneskin
2004-09-16 15:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
My theory is that Jesus never died (as discussed here last week), but
using the assumed name of "Jack T. Ripper" he was able to board the
Titanic in 1912 and sink it along with the evidence that is was carrying
relating to a 10,000 year old civilisation which built the pyramids. Of
course the evidence in question had been witnessed by the CIA who passed
the information on to JFK, which is why Jesus had to shot him in 1963,
using his godly powers to guide the "magic" bullet.
After the death of JKF Jesus went underground until he resurfaced to
recruit Elvis to his campaign. Elvis spent 24 years undergoing
reconstructive surgery to make him look Arabic before piloting the 2nd
aircraft to crash into the WTC. Of course this was just a cover for
Jesus, who was flying an alien spaceship taken from Area 51, into the
side of the Pentagon to retrieve photographs that clearly showed him
forging the Hitler diaries.
How does that sound?
I'm slightly dissapointed you didn't include Tutankhamun TBH.
--
Stoneskin

[Insert sig text here]
porl
2004-09-16 16:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stoneskin
I'm slightly dissapointed you didn't include Tutankhamun TBH.
That inspired me in my boredom to go and check out some stuff about the
curse of Tutankhamun. This bit amused me mightily:

One newspaper even printed a curse supposed to have been written in
hieroglyphs at the entrance of the tomb, the translation being:

"They who enter this sacred tomb shall swift be visited by wings of death."

However, no inscribed curse was found.

One inscription, found on the Anubis shrine (a jackal on a pedestal shown
here) in the tomb's so-called Treasury, did say:

"It is I who hinder the sand from choking the secret chamber. I am for the
protection of the deceased."

However, a reporter went on to add his own words to the reported
inscription:

"and I will kill all those who cross this threshold into the sacred
precincts of the Royal King who lives forever."
tallbloke
2004-09-16 11:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@toil, ***@btinternet.com,
Post by tallbloke
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite
the
Post by tallbloke
script.
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Tallbloke, with respect[1], you are talking about something which you
evidently know fuck all about[2], in a forum where there are many
posters who know a great deal about the subject.
Want a shovel for that hole? ;-)
Well Ok TOG, I know I'm not as knowledgeable about planes as some here,
thats why I'm keeping an open mind on it. Cnn *did* say it was a *small
jet* which hit the Pentagon in the early reports.

If the 757 was shot down, the Gummint would want to cover it up, as
among the other questions which would have been raised would have been:

If scramble and intercept plans can be effective for military buildings
such as the Pentagon, why not for civilian targets such as the WTC. Of
course there was a much shorter flight time to the WTC...
--
tallbloke
Tasmin350i MatchlessG80
TOG@toil, chateau.murray@btinternet.com,
2004-09-16 11:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Hog
Post by porl
http://www.guardian.co.uk/egyptair/article/0,2763,330000,00.html
Doesn't have all the details I remember being reported at the time
but
Post by 'Hog
Post by porl
that's the one.
Eeek I remember now.
It cant be beyond the bounds of software development to lock the
controls
Post by 'Hog
out from deranged pilot manoeuvres.
On fly-by-wire planes, that's exactly what they do. However, they tend
to have an over-ride as well, which was why that French twonk put an
Airbus into the trees during a low fly-by: he wanted to do a tricky
manoeuvre, and turned off the over-ride.

The film of what happened is on the web:
http://www.airdisaster.com/download/af320.shtml
'Hog
2004-09-16 11:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@toil, ***@btinternet.com,
Post by 'Hog
Post by porl
http://www.guardian.co.uk/egyptair/article/0,2763,330000,00.html
Doesn't have all the details I remember being reported at the time
but that's the one.
Eeek I remember now.
It cant be beyond the bounds of software development to lock the
controls out from deranged pilot manoeuvres.
On fly-by-wire planes, that's exactly what they do. However, they tend
to have an over-ride as well, which was why that French twonk put an
Airbus into the trees during a low fly-by: he wanted to do a tricky
manoeuvre, and turned off the over-ride.
http://www.airdisaster.com/download/af320.shtml
Oh I remember that one well. Must go down in the top 100 fuck ups history
list
--
'Hog
BOMB#17
TOG@toil, chateau.murray@btinternet.com,
2004-09-16 11:24:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by tallbloke
Post by ***@toil, ***@btinternet.com,
Post by tallbloke
Well exactly, *early* CNN reports before 'they' decided to rewrite
the
Post by tallbloke
script.
Bloody great engines don't vanish in an impact like that.
Tallbloke, with respect[1], you are talking about something which
you
Post by tallbloke
Post by ***@toil, ***@btinternet.com,
evidently know fuck all about[2], in a forum where there are many
posters who know a great deal about the subject.
Want a shovel for that hole? ;-)
Well Ok TOG, I know I'm not as knowledgeable about planes as some
here,
Post by tallbloke
thats why I'm keeping an open mind on it.
Do you "keep an open mind" on every bit of bollocks? You'll be saying
Des has an R1 next.
Mike
2004-09-16 11:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@toil, ***@btinternet.com,
Post by tallbloke
thats why I'm keeping an open mind on it.
Do you "keep an open mind" on every bit of bollocks? You'll be saying
Des has an R1 next.
Maybe it's "keep an open mind" as in "in one ear, out the other".
--
Mike Hall
R1100S
flash@work
2004-09-16 12:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
There's only one way to find out for sure. Any pilots round these parts?
Nigel Eaton
2004-09-16 13:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@work
Post by Veggie Dave
http://www.timwhalen.net/pentagon/pentagon.swf
There's only one way to find out for sure. Any pilots round these parts?
Possibly, but going in shouting "AndrewR-uh-Akhbar!!!" isn't really
quite the same, is it?

And what landmark should we choose? North Wales Plod HQ?
--
Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...