Discussion:
warning speed camera
(too old to reply)
chris
2003-08-06 09:59:37 UTC
Permalink
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states

"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of our
camera locations"

obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this

Chris







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Paul Robson
2003-08-06 10:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Deepest sympathies - the present obsession with pursuing minor motoring
offences at the expense of serious crime is little short of an outrage.
You might like to browse www.safespeed.org.uk for moral support.
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a Police sign
saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign saying "0 burglars
caught".
Andrewr At Work
2003-08-06 11:38:06 UTC
Permalink
"Dave Dew" <***@ENtlworld.com> wrote in message news:SJ5Ya.5965$***@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net


<SNIP>
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives. This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding' becomes
culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
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The speccy Geordie twat.
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Steve Parry
2003-08-06 11:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
<SNIP>
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this
country alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More
children are killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of
our lives by perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the
authorities attempting to save lives. This is a problem throughout
the developed world and it will probably require the passing of this
generation before 'speeding' becomes culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
ROFLMAO
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
sweller
2003-08-06 12:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding'
becomes culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
..and the part about education declining under the Conservatives.
--
Simon

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England | MZSOB: http://www.mztech.fsnet.co.uk/
Depresion
2003-08-06 15:46:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by sweller
Post by Andrewr At Work
This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding'
becomes culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
..and the part about education declining under the Conservatives.
Or that Sadam could launch weapons of mass destruction in 45 mins.
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 15:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Depresion
Post by sweller
Post by Andrewr At Work
This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding'
becomes culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
..and the part about education declining under the Conservatives.
Or that Sadam could launch weapons of mass destruction in 45 mins.
well he could have if he could have found 'em!!!!
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Depresion
2003-08-06 16:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Parry
Post by Depresion
Post by sweller
Post by Andrewr At Work
This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding'
becomes culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
..and the part about education declining under the Conservatives.
Or that Sadam could launch weapons of mass destruction in 45 mins.
well he could have if he could have found 'em!!!!
Make no doubt the US will find them, it's just a question of how they will get
them into Iraq in the first place.
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 21:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Depresion
Post by Steve Parry
Post by Depresion
Post by sweller
Post by Andrewr At Work
This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding'
becomes culturally unacceptable.
Look Mummy! There's the twat who believes Government propoganda.
..and the part about education declining under the Conservatives.
Or that Sadam could launch weapons of mass destruction in 45 mins.
well he could have if he could have found 'em!!!!
Make no doubt the US will find them, it's just a question of how they will get
them into Iraq in the first place.
quite suprised they were dumb enough not to have brought some with them ;o)
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Phil Wattis
2003-08-06 11:45:15 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:36:13 +0100, "Dave Dew"
Post by Paul Robson
Deepest sympathies - the present obsession with pursuing minor motoring
offences at the expense of serious crime is little short of an outrage.
You might like to browse www.safespeed.org.uk for moral support.
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a Police
sign
Post by Paul Robson
saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign saying "0 burglars
caught".
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone.
Which is just a fraction of the deaths caused by alcohol or smoking
related illnesses. If the government spent a proportionate amount of
time and resources on those we would all be fitness fanatics.

The words 'easy targets' spring to mind.

Recently a burglar was awarded 1000ukp compensation for having his
human rights breached by the police. He refused to take part in an
identity parade, knowing full well he would be identified, so the
poilce video taped him without his knowledge and showed the tape to
the victim who duly identified him.

Go figure! But it sets an interesting presendence.

Does this mean that a speed camera photographing me without my prior
knowledge or consent is breaching my human rights?


Phil.
Eatmorepies
2003-08-06 19:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Wattis
Which is just a fraction of the deaths caused by alcohol or smoking
related illnesses. If the government spent a proportionate amount of
time and resources on those we would all be fitness fanatics.
.
There is a difference;

I choose to drink beer - which could kill me. I don't choose to be killed by
a car being driven at a dangerous speed.

I do make progress on my motorcycles at speeds some might think a bit too
much. But not where children roam. As a vunerable motorcyclist I am likely
to be the injured party if I overcook it. My logic thus dictates that the
lower the NCAP start rating of your car the faster you can go - I have
confused myself.

John
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 11:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
Deepest sympathies - the present obsession with pursuing minor
motoring offences at the expense of serious crime is little short
of an outrage. You might like to browse www.safespeed.org.uk for
moral support.
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a
Police sign saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign
saying "0 burglars caught".
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this
country alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More
children are killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of
our lives by perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the
authorities attempting to save lives. This is a problem throughout
the developed world and it will probably require the passing of this
generation before 'speeding' becomes culturally unacceptable.
Sorry you were caught Chris but let us hope it encourages the rest of
us to watch our speed.
Regards.
Dave Dew
I understand about 16000 people commit suicide each year in the UK ... if the Government was serious
about saving lives this figure has more scope than the 3500 human road kills .... but of course you
could'nt go making revenue from attempted suicides [1]


[1] someone now in the Bliar (!) Government is no doubt working on this as we speak
--
Steve Parry

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http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 15:26:53 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:47:18 +0100, "Steve Parry"
Post by Steve Parry
Post by Paul Robson
Deepest sympathies - the present obsession with pursuing minor
motoring offences at the expense of serious crime is little short
of an outrage. You might like to browse www.safespeed.org.uk for
moral support.
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a
Police sign saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign
saying "0 burglars caught".
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this
country alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More
children are killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of
our lives by perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the
authorities attempting to save lives. This is a problem throughout
the developed world and it will probably require the passing of this
generation before 'speeding' becomes culturally unacceptable.
Sorry you were caught Chris but let us hope it encourages the rest of
us to watch our speed.
Regards.
Dave Dew
I understand about 16000 people commit suicide each year in the UK
... if the Government was serious about saving lives this figure has
more scope than the 3500 human road kills .... but of course you
could'nt go making revenue from attempted suicides [1]
It's against the law I believe. They are criminals only if they
survive.
ISTR that suicide (and attempted) was decriminalised a long time ago ... if not then perhaps the
saftey nazis could use attempted suicide as another offence to harrass bikers with ;o)
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Klaatu
2003-08-06 15:29:15 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:47:18 +0100, "Steve Parry"
Post by Steve Parry
I understand about 16000 people commit suicide each year in the UK ... if the Government was serious
about saving lives this figure has more scope than the 3500 human road kills .... but of course you
could'nt go making revenue from attempted suicides [1]
It's against the law I believe. They are criminals only if they
survive.
^^^^^^^

Which should have of course read "Die"

Bollocks

--
Klaatu

Gort! Deglet Ovrosco!
dojj
2003-08-06 19:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klaatu
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:47:18 +0100, "Steve Parry"
Post by Steve Parry
I understand about 16000 people commit suicide each year in the UK ...
if the Government was serious
Post by Klaatu
Post by Steve Parry
about saving lives this figure has more scope than the 3500 human road
kills .... but of course you
Post by Klaatu
Post by Steve Parry
could'nt go making revenue from attempted suicides [1]
It's against the law I believe. They are criminals only if they
survive.
^^^^^^^
Which should have of course read "Die"
Bollocks
which reminds me of the recent phrase used by bush about the suicide bombers
"we will use all avalable resources to bring the perpetrators of these
crimes to justice"
pardon me george, but they blew themselves up mate ;)
Post by Klaatu
--
Klaatu
Gort! Deglet Ovrosco!
Gareth
2003-08-06 16:43:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:47:18 +0100, "Steve Parry"
Post by Steve Parry
I understand about 16000 people commit suicide each year in the UK ... if the Government was serious
about saving lives this figure has more scope than the 3500 human road kills .... but of course you
could'nt go making revenue from attempted suicides [1]
[1] someone now in the Bliar (!) Government is no doubt working on this as we speak
Didn't people who commit suicide have to forfeit their estate? Not
sure who to though.

Gareth
3A Web Hosting
2003-08-06 17:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi
Post by Gareth
Didn't people who commit suicide have to forfeit their estate? Not
sure who to though.
What happens if they have a hatchback or saloon ? ;-)
--
Colin

3A Web Hosting Team
http://www.3awebhosting.co.uk
Rope
2003-08-06 13:07:25 UTC
Permalink
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives. This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding' becomes
culturally unacceptable.
Sorry you were caught Chris but let us hope it encourages the rest of us to
watch our speed.
Oh shit!
<dons flack jacket, gets popcorn ready>
--
Rob_P
***@ukrm.net
http://www.trustgroup.com
uppercase(d) BBIWYMC#1 BOG#11? MRO#31 IBCDBBB#1(kotl)
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-------------Confusion will be my epitaph------------------
Champ
2003-08-06 13:43:43 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:36:13 +0100, "Dave Dew"
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives.
Nice use of language. In fact, more children are killed by *cars*
than perverts each year. The stats on whether those cars are speeding
are complex. Why not say "killed by inappropriately driven cars"?
--
Champ : A welcome patch of grey in a black and white world
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX-7RR Endurance Racer (nearly finished)
GYASB#0;BotToS#2;BOTAFO(T|F)#35;UKRMFBC#2;IHABWTMMJ#3;MCT#5;WG*#1;BONY#40;DFV#8;IbW#17;SBS#34;BHaLC#1
Racing : www.team-ukrm.co.uk. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk
Andrewr At Work
2003-08-06 16:00:25 UTC
Permalink
"Champ" <***@champ.org.uk> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com

<SNIP>
Post by Champ
Nice use of language. In fact, more children are killed by *cars*
than perverts each year.
How may children per year are killed by perverts in cars?
--
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The speccy Geordie twat.
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Dave Fawthrop
2003-08-06 18:19:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:00:25 +0000 (UTC), "Andrewr At Work"
<***@rockface.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

| "Champ" <***@champ.org.uk> wrote in message
| news:***@4ax.com
|
| <SNIP>
|
| > Nice use of language. In fact, more children are killed by *cars*
| > than perverts each year.

About 4 children per day killed in road accidents.

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Dan Buchan
2003-08-07 00:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Wattis
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:36:13 +0100, "Dave Dew"
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives.
Nice use of language. In fact, more children are killed by *cars*
than perverts each year. The stats on whether those cars are speeding
are complex. Why not say "killed by inappropriately driven cars"?
And let's not assume it was always the car's fault. I'm sure I'm not the
only one who has observed, er, inappropriately raised children who are
either criminally careless or deliberately reckless for fun. Monday
morning as I was about to turn left onto the main road, an almost blind
corner because of the pub there, two 10 year old fools came sailing round
on their bikes in the opposite direction on the wrong side of the road (IOW
following my exact course but in the opposite direction). There is a
railing separating the pavement from the road and they were on the wrong
side. Jesus Christ. When I swore loudly (an involuntary reaction) they
looked at me as if wondering what on earth they had done wrong. Felt a bit
guilty for using the word 'fuck' in front of young children but I dare say
they hear worse at home. I imagine they had been chucked out of the house
by their parents because I certainly would never voluntarily have been
about at 8.20am during the summer holidays...
mb
2003-08-06 15:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives. This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding' becomes
culturally unacceptable.
Sorry you were caught Chris but let us hope it encourages the rest of us
to
watch our speed.
Regards.
Dave Dew
So, what percentage of all these deaths and injuries are caused by excessive
speed?
--
Mike
FJ1200 (porky torquey)
GTS1000 (best brakes on the road)
Andrewr At Work
2003-08-06 15:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by mb
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone.
So, what percentage of all these deaths and injuries are caused by excessive
speed?
All of them, obviously.

If none of the vehicles involved had been moving then 98% of fatalities
would have been avoided[1].

[1] This wouldn't have helped in the, statistically insignificant,
cases where the vehicle _was_ stationary and the pedestrian simply
lowered their head and ran at it full-tilt. Extensive government
research suggests that it's not really worth saving these people.
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William Grainger
2003-08-06 15:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
[1] This wouldn't have helped in the, statistically insignificant,
cases where the vehicle _was_ stationary and the pedestrian simply
lowered their head and ran at it full-tilt. Extensive government
research suggests that it's not really worth saving these people.
Ginge! Be careful!
mb
2003-08-06 15:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewr At Work
Post by mb
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone.
So, what percentage of all these deaths and injuries are caused by excessive
speed?
All of them, obviously.
If none of the vehicles involved had been moving then 98% of fatalities
would have been avoided.
Ho hum, I was expecting that. My fate was sealed as soon as I hit the send
button ;-)
What I should have typed was: what percentage was caused by "motorcars"
travelling in excess of the posted speed limit.
--
Mike
FJ1200 (porky torquey)
GTS1000 (best brakes on the road)
Guy King
2003-08-06 15:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by mb
So, what percentage of all these deaths and injuries are caused by excessive
speed?
That depends on how you read the statistics. Anywhere between 6% and 60%.
--
Skipweasel:- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you
want it to.
Niall
2003-08-06 22:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy King
Post by mb
So, what percentage of all these deaths and injuries are caused by excessive
speed?
That depends on how you read the statistics. Anywhere between 6% and 60%.
The other statistic they don't mention- how many are as a result of
criminal activity (car theft, use of car in crime)?

Thus when as frequently happens a carload of joyriding habitual
criminal scroats darwinate themselves at high speed, this is recorded
as motoring deaths (probably with "excess speed" listed as the cause),
rather than environmental improvements as it should be.

It should also be recorded as "result of crime" if the driver is
disqualified.
--
Niall
joe parkin
2003-08-06 18:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives. This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding' becomes
culturally unacceptable.
If we spent more time in educating our children with regard to road
safety and monitor them when they are on a main road accidents may
reduce in number if not in severity. Stop all parking on roads to stop
the children running out between cars.
I have not heard much of doing this, perhaps it will affect *you* too
much?
Ben Blaney
2003-08-06 19:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by joe parkin
If we spent more time in educating our children with regard to road
safety and monitor them when they are on a main road accidents may
reduce in number if not in severity.
I've always maintained that teaching children to stay away from
riverbanks and the sides of boats, would be a good deal cheaper than
teaching them to swim.
--
Ben Blaney
GSF1200 VFR800 CBR600 CD200
"We stopped only for fuel"
joe parkin
2003-08-06 19:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by joe parkin
If we spent more time in educating our children with regard to road
safety and monitor them when they are on a main road accidents may
reduce in number if not in severity.
I've always maintained that teaching children to stay away from
riverbanks and the sides of boats, would be a good deal cheaper than
teaching them to swim.
We are now living in a society were blame has to lie with someone,
preferably someone else, and the icing on the cake is if we can sue
them as well and make some money.
On that note my VWF money has been promised,£18000 so enough for a
decent bike. Take me to your bike shop.
Guy King
2003-08-06 20:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by joe parkin
If we spent more time in educating our children with regard to road
safety and monitor them when they are on a main road accidents may
reduce in number if not in severity.
I resent this move to throw the responsibility onto the pedestrian,
particularly the younger ones. Driving safely is the /drivers'/
responsibility.

OK, so you specified "main" roads, but really we've stolen the side
streets from pedestrians and kids in particular. I used to play in the
street and cars used to slow down till we'd clear out of the way. These
days they just weave in and out of the kids 'cos they can't be bothered
to wait. It's like these twits who say they're all infavour of speed
cameras but "Why don't they put them near schools?" - so only kids get
run over? And only near schools? Wake up, all sorts of people get
injured by road traffic in all sorts of situations.

Luckily we moved (deliberately) to a road where car speeds are very low
(and about to become lower still by design) and where kids can roam free
well away from cars as well. We moved away from a "quiet" side street in
Hounslow where despite there only just room to squeeze a fire engine
down the road cars still tried to do 30mph from time to time.

Where most of this argument about speed falls down is it becomes a
slanging match between those in favour of draconian anti-speeding
measures and those who resent them. In reality, the sensible course
probably lies somewhere in between. Speed limits are a very blunt tool
for regulating road safety, but none of the others work terribly well.
"Educate drivers better" is often heard. Take it from me, I spent five
years educating drivers in cars then another four in minibuses and many
of 'em are resistant to instruction about the dangers of /inappropriate/
speed. It's not just young drivers who can't get it into their heads
that 30mph may be suitable for some roads with a 30mph limit and not for
others.
Similarly, some seek to blame drivers for all accidents. This is
obviously a fallacy as well. A young lad was splatted a few hundred
yards from here recently. He and some friends had been playing chicken
with the traffic, but he got the short straw and didn't make it across
in time. OK, so /some/ of the local kids may have learned this lesson,
but there will still be thousands playing chicken all across the country
even as I type.

What it all boils down to is that most vehicle incidents are caused by
drivers, a few are caused by pedestrians and other road users and a very
few are caused by mechanical faults. Though excessive speed may not have
been the /cause/ of these, it's largely true that a lower speed would
have reduced the severity of the outcome.[1] This is another area where
the argument gets bogged down by people who insist "Speed causes
accidents" or "Speed doesn't cause accidents". What would really cut
accidents is drivers paying a lot more attention to what's going on and
the potential risks involved in driving in a particular way at a
particular time. Unfortunately, many drivers do not have the skills or
the imagination to understand what /may/ or /can/ go wrong and how to
avoid it.


Right, I'm off for a wallow under the shower to cool off.

[1] At this point, some smart arse always says "Oh, so we should all
drive everywhere at 5mph?" Clearly not, but nor should we driver
everywhere /at/ the speed limit, 'cos that's not sensible either. Where
the problems start is where drivers claim they can be trusted to judge a
safe speed for a particular set of circumstances...but in reality don't
have the skills to do so. Drivers don't like being told that they're not
terribly good drivers...it's even worse than teling them that they're
lousy in bed...but in many cases it's true. The Driving Test is fairly
simple, and there's no real incentive to improve later. And anyway, even
if you demonstrate to someone that you /can/ drive to a high standard,
there's no reason to believe that you /will/ drive to that standard all
the time or even at all.
--
Skipweasel:- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you
want it to.
Depresion
2003-08-06 22:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy King
What it all boils down to is that most vehicle incidents are caused by
drivers, a few are caused by pedestrians and other road users and a very
few are caused by mechanical faults.
A large proportion of accidents involving pedestrians are caused by them,
after dark it rises again and over 70% of pedestrians involved in accidents are
over the drink drive limit. The problem is getting worse with the litigation / the
driver is always to blame culture we have where people just step into the road
in front of oncoming vehicles safe in the knowledge that if a driver should hit them
they can claim compensation. I can't say the current crop of road safety adverts
for kids help, using hedgehogs after all they have such good road cense don't
they.
Niall
2003-08-06 22:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy King
Post by joe parkin
If we spent more time in educating our children with regard to road
safety and monitor them when they are on a main road accidents may
reduce in number if not in severity.
I resent this move to throw the responsibility onto the pedestrian,
particularly the younger ones. Driving safely is the /drivers'/
responsibility.
OK, so you specified "main" roads, but really we've stolen the side
streets from pedestrians and kids in particular. I used to play in the
street and cars used to slow down till we'd clear out of the way. These
days they just weave in and out of the kids 'cos they can't be bothered
to wait.
But why is kids playing in the street A Good Thing? Because its how
t'were done in Granfer's day? It was a cause of death and injury then
too, but society is now expected to provide gardens, play areas, parks
and open spaces, so it should no longer be neccesary or desireable to
have kids playing in the street. Certainly it's noticeable around here
that the ones perpetually kicking a ball about the road are the ones
with "learning difficulties" and/ or parents who don't give a shit as
long as they are out of sight. If these characters thought cars had to
stop for them they would think it was a great game. Fortunately the
next stage in their development seems to be to get a scooter,
motorbike or car and tear about the place, so the previous generation
keeps them on their toes as regards getting out of the way of
vehicles.
--
Niall
Paul Robson
2003-08-06 19:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a Police
sign
Post by Paul Robson
saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign saying "0 burglars
caught".
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone. In France the figure is nearer 9000 each year. More children are
killed every year by speeding cars than in the whole of our lives by
perverts yet so many of us seem to object to the authorities attempting to
save lives. This is a problem throughout the developed world and it will
probably require the passing of this generation before 'speeding' becomes
culturally unacceptable.
Ah you must be the person dumb enough to believe the "all these deaths
caused by speeding" figures ; ya know, the ones that counted as 'speeding'
if the car was moving, or had moved in the last three hours.

You aren't really so thick as to believe it's anything to do with saving
lives are you ?

I just ask, cos in Norfolk and Suffolk where they're really keen on speed
cameras and ludicrous limits, there are some suicidal junctions about which
they've done fuck all. Slowing down the traffic just makes it worse because
the traffic density increases and there are fewer gaps to (say) turn right
onto a trunk road.
Dave Dew
2003-08-06 20:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
Post by Paul Robson
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a Police
sign
Post by Paul Robson
saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign saying "0 burglars
caught".
Ah you must be the person dumb enough to believe the "all these deaths
caused by speeding" figures ; ya know, the ones that counted as 'speeding'
if the car was moving, or had moved in the last three hours.
You aren't really so thick as to believe it's anything to do with saving
lives are you ?
I just ask, cos in Norfolk and Suffolk where they're really keen on speed
cameras and ludicrous limits, there are some suicidal junctions about which
they've done fuck all. Slowing down the traffic just makes it worse because
the traffic density increases and there are fewer gaps to (say) turn right
onto a trunk road.
I tell you what. You speed merchants don't like being reminded that you are
responsible for more death, mayhem and misery than all the perverts and
burglars combined do you ?

Regards.

Dave Dew.
dojj
2003-08-06 20:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
Post by Paul Robson
Post by Paul Robson
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a Police
sign
Post by Paul Robson
saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign saying "0
burglars
Post by Paul Robson
Post by Paul Robson
caught".
Ah you must be the person dumb enough to believe the "all these deaths
caused by speeding" figures ; ya know, the ones that counted as 'speeding'
if the car was moving, or had moved in the last three hours.
You aren't really so thick as to believe it's anything to do with saving
lives are you ?
I just ask, cos in Norfolk and Suffolk where they're really keen on speed
cameras and ludicrous limits, there are some suicidal junctions about
which
Post by Paul Robson
they've done fuck all. Slowing down the traffic just makes it worse
because
Post by Paul Robson
the traffic density increases and there are fewer gaps to (say) turn right
onto a trunk road.
I tell you what. You speed merchants don't like being reminded that you are
responsible for more death, mayhem and misery than all the perverts and
burglars combined do you ?
Regards.
Dave Dew.
we ain't speed merchants, but the A12 has been set some silly speed limits
as of late
and how does driving fast down a country lane like the A12 where there
aren't even any pavements or people to walk down them, classed as being
dangerous for pedestrians?
Guy King
2003-08-06 20:48:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by dojj
and how does driving fast down a country lane like the A12 where there
aren't even any pavements or people to walk down them, classed as being
dangerous for pedestrians?
I reckon that just about sums up how bloody awful the state of driving
in this country has become.

It's BECAUSE there aren't any pavements that pedestrians and horse
riders and so on are more at risk.
--
Skipweasel:- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you
want it to.
Paul Robson
2003-08-06 20:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Parry
Post by Paul Robson
Ah you must be the person dumb enough to believe the "all these deaths
caused by speeding" figures ; ya know, the ones that counted as
'speeding' if the car was moving, or had moved in the last three hours.
You aren't really so thick as to believe it's anything to do with saving
lives are you ?
I just ask, cos in Norfolk and Suffolk where they're really keen on speed
cameras and ludicrous limits, there are some suicidal junctions about
which
Post by Paul Robson
they've done fuck all. Slowing down the traffic just makes it worse
because
Post by Paul Robson
the traffic density increases and there are fewer gaps to (say) turn
right onto a trunk road.
I tell you what. You speed merchants don't like being reminded that you
are responsible for more death, mayhem and misery than all the perverts
and burglars combined do you ?
No, I'm not. Norfolk roads are abject crap, there are very few places where
you can actually speed. Suffolk is just as bad. There are lots of
suicidally bad roads and road junctions which the council has done NOTHING
about for YEARS. Junctions that are impossible to cross safely at any speed
unless it is four in the morning.

The council has had no problems with building more housing near them, which
of course improves safety.

PS: Until recently I drove a Daewoo Matiz (798cc engine). I now drive the
(much faster) Ford Ka. Does this make me a speed merchant ?
Paul Giverin
2003-08-06 22:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
No, I'm not. Norfolk roads are abject crap, there are very few places where
you can actually speed. Suffolk is just as bad.
Living in Norfolk (but on the border with Suffolk) I would say that your
statement above is complete nonsense. I know of very few roads where its
not possible to speed if you wanted to.
--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website
http://www.britjet.co.uk
Champ
2003-08-06 21:43:01 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:17:23 +0100, "Dave Dew"
Post by Dave Dew
I tell you what. You speed merchants don't like being reminded that you are
responsible for more death, mayhem and misery than all the perverts and
burglars combined do you ?
I've never killed anyone.

hth.
--
Champ : worse than Bonwick
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 UKRMFBC#2 IHABWTMMJ#3 MCT#5 WG*#1 BONY#40 DFV#8 IbW#17 SBS#34
Racing : www.team-ukrm.com. Vanity Publishing : www.champ.org.uk
Paul Giverin
2003-08-06 22:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
I just ask, cos in Norfolk and Suffolk where they're really keen on speed
cameras and ludicrous limits, there are some suicidal junctions about which
they've done fuck all. Slowing down the traffic just makes it worse because
the traffic density increases and there are fewer gaps to (say) turn right
onto a trunk road.
How do you work that out then?

Slowing down traffic doesn't make the gaps any smaller. You may have to
wait longer for a gap but you would get longer to get across.
--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website
http://www.britjet.co.uk
Depresion
2003-08-06 22:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Giverin
Post by Paul Robson
I just ask, cos in Norfolk and Suffolk where they're really keen on speed
cameras and ludicrous limits, there are some suicidal junctions about which
they've done fuck all. Slowing down the traffic just makes it worse because
the traffic density increases and there are fewer gaps to (say) turn right
onto a trunk road.
How do you work that out then?
Slowing down traffic doesn't make the gaps any smaller. You may have to
wait longer for a gap but you would get longer to get across.
Most people judge gaps by time (2 seconds minimum) at 30 mph that's a shorter
distance than at 60 so traffic density would increase if at saturation level, it's hard
to impossible to guess what would happen at lower levels of traffic.
The Older Gentleman
2003-08-06 21:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Sorry you were caught Chris but let us hope it encourages the rest of us to
watch our speed.
Bollocks it will. I'll just watch my mirrors.
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB550F2 CB400F ST70 YTC#3
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 IHABWTJ#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 OSOS#1
BOF#30 WUSS#5 Home page awaiting transfer to Pipex
Lozzo
2003-08-06 23:59:03 UTC
Permalink
Dave Dew fascinated us all by saying...
Post by Paul Robson
I liked the sign posted in Lincolnshire (I think) where below a Police
sign
Post by Paul Robson
saying "1233 speeders caught" the community put a sign saying "0 burglars
caught".
Yes but burglars do not normally kill people whereas motorcars are
responsible for the deaths of about 3500 people annually in this country
alone.
<snip utter bollocks>

Fuck off you sanctimonious twat.
--
Lozzo
'95 Kawasaki ZZR1100D, '97 Kawasaki GPZ500S, '83 Honda CB250RS
Big Zed Little Zed Dead shed
New to ukrm? : www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
Dennis
2003-08-07 01:13:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lozzo
Fuck off you sanctimonious twat.
off?
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 11:25:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on
the verge of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera
pointing out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I
hold my hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a
clean license and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as
I feel it is entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of
our camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
Chris
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
their interpretation of
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of
our camera locations"
is that they post the details in the local newspapers ..... which
even locals no longer take note of and visitors never see ... ditto
they post on their website with similar results ..
http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/
of course a fucking big sign saying "Caution ~ Camera Speed Trap
Ahead" would result in lower speed and therefore lower income
generated.
PS

http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/schedule/
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Mark Trotman
2003-08-06 11:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Parry
http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/schedule/
More interesting, perhaps?

http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/seasonal

KTF

Gloster Wolf
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 12:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Trotman
Post by Steve Parry
http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/schedule/
More interesting, perhaps?
http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/seasonal
KTF
Gloster Wolf
why?
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 12:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Trotman
Post by Steve Parry
http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/schedule/
More interesting, perhaps?
http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/seasonal
KTF
Gloster Wolf
why?
Because it mentions bike specific statistics?
Yes I know but why is that of relevance given that it does'nt detail how many were caused by other
vehicles, or if they were visitors or locals, or if the accident was because they spent so much time
looking for speed cameras and arrive alive vans they failed to see legitimate dangers on the road
;o)

Given that north Wales plod reckons they don't target bikes its a bit "odd" that they take so much
trouble to record and report bike stats ...
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 11:51:00 UTC
Permalink
of course a fucking big sign saying "Caution ~ Camera Speed Trap Ahead"
would result in lower speed
and therefore lower income generated.
EXACTLY !! Speed cameras are not there to aid road safety, they are not
there to prevent or detect crime, they are not there to make people into
better drivers ... They are there for one reason and one reason alone ... To
produce revenue !!

<cynic>
The newer systems are even more cost effective as, using digital camera
technology and radio networks, they need no intervention by the police at
all and so reduce the cost of having extra police. Eventually, one would
forsee a time when the police do nothing other than sit behind a desk just
filling in forms and not actually bothering to go out on the streets to
prevent or investigate crime at all .. They could even recruit civilians to
wear bright yellow vests and wander about city centres for them looking like
policemen so that it looks as if the police actually have a presense. I can
even forsee a time when private security companies come on board to provide
patrols for homeowners that the police no longer provide... :-)
</cynic>

Remember the motto " If you're gonna do the crime - Drive carefully "

:-)
Andrewr At Work
2003-08-06 11:56:31 UTC
Permalink
"Not in my trousers" <***@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message news:3f30ebc6$***@corp-news.newsgroups.com

<SNIP>
Post by Not in my trousers
Eventually, one would
forsee a time when the police do nothing other than sit behind a desk just
filling in forms and not actually bothering to go out on the streets to
prevent or investigate crime at all
Either you posted this message in 1993 or you are _seriously_ behind the
times.
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 11:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Not in my trousers
of course a fucking big sign saying "Caution ~ Camera Speed Trap
Ahead" would result in lower speed and therefore lower income
generated.
EXACTLY !! Speed cameras are not there to aid road safety, they
are not there to prevent or detect crime, they are not there to make
people into better drivers ... They are there for one reason and one
reason alone ... To produce revenue !!
<cynic>
The newer systems are even more cost effective as, using digital
camera technology and radio networks, they need no intervention by
the police at all and so reduce the cost of having extra police.
Eventually, one would forsee a time when the police do nothing other
than sit behind a desk just filling in forms and not actually
bothering to go out on the streets to prevent or investigate crime at
all .. They could even recruit civilians to wear bright yellow vests
and wander about city centres for them looking like policemen so that
it looks as if the police actually have a presense. I can even
forsee a time when private security companies come on board to
provide patrols for homeowners that the police no longer provide...
:-) </cynic>
Remember the motto " If you're gonna do the crime - Drive carefully "
:-)
of course this is the same force who recently published the pathetic 6% detection rate for
burglaries .... and has spent 8,000,000 GBP on Handhelds and Laptops
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 12:09:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Parry
Post by Not in my trousers
of course a fucking big sign saying "Caution ~ Camera Speed Trap
Ahead" would result in lower speed and therefore lower income
generated.
EXACTLY !! Speed cameras are not there to aid road safety, they
are not there to prevent or detect crime, they are not there to make
people into better drivers ... They are there for one reason and one
reason alone ... To produce revenue !!
<cynic>
The newer systems are even more cost effective as, using digital
camera technology and radio networks, they need no intervention by
the police at all and so reduce the cost of having extra police.
Eventually, one would forsee a time when the police do nothing other
than sit behind a desk just filling in forms and not actually
bothering to go out on the streets to prevent or investigate crime at
all .. They could even recruit civilians to wear bright yellow vests
and wander about city centres for them looking like policemen so that
it looks as if the police actually have a presense. I can even
forsee a time when private security companies come on board to
provide patrols for homeowners that the police no longer provide...
:-) </cynic>
Remember the motto " If you're gonna do the crime - Drive carefully "
:-)
of course this is the same force who recently published the pathetic
6% detection rate for burglaries .... and has spent 8,000,000 GBP on
Handhelds and Laptops
one point ... in the local news article about them buying handhelds they went to great lenghts not
to call them Pocket PC's ... gives a whole new avenue for police constables ;o)
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Power Grainger
2003-08-06 13:15:12 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:09:06 +0100, "Steve Parry"
Post by Steve Parry
one point ... in the local news article about them buying handhelds they went to great lenghts not
to call them Pocket PC's ... gives a whole new avenue for police constables ;o)
Bwahahahahha!! "Sorry officer, didn't see you there"

well, it amused me. little things please little minds...
--
Claire Grainger
ZXR400 DFWAG#5 TWA#8 IbW#21
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 13:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Power Grainger
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:09:06 +0100, "Steve Parry"
Post by Steve Parry
one point ... in the local news article about them buying handhelds
they went to great lenghts not to call them Pocket PC's ... gives a
whole new avenue for police constables ;o)
Bwahahahahha!! "Sorry officer, didn't see you there"
well, it amused me. little things please little minds...
"are you pleased to see me or is that your pocket PC?" ;o)
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Depresion
2003-08-06 15:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Parry
Post by Not in my trousers
of course a fucking big sign saying "Caution ~ Camera Speed Trap
Ahead" would result in lower speed and therefore lower income
generated.
EXACTLY !! Speed cameras are not there to aid road safety, they
are not there to prevent or detect crime, they are not there to make
people into better drivers ... They are there for one reason and one
reason alone ... To produce revenue !!
<cynic>
The newer systems are even more cost effective as, using digital
camera technology and radio networks, they need no intervention by
the police at all and so reduce the cost of having extra police.
Eventually, one would forsee a time when the police do nothing other
than sit behind a desk just filling in forms and not actually
bothering to go out on the streets to prevent or investigate crime at
all .. They could even recruit civilians to wear bright yellow vests
and wander about city centres for them looking like policemen so that
it looks as if the police actually have a presense. I can even
forsee a time when private security companies come on board to
provide patrols for homeowners that the police no longer provide...
:-) </cynic>
Remember the motto " If you're gonna do the crime - Drive carefully "
:-)
of course this is the same force who recently published the pathetic 6% detection rate for
burglaries .... and has spent 8,000,000 GBP on Handhelds and Laptops
£8m on computers? They only have 2 dozen of them but they need to replace them
constantly as they keep getting stolen. ;)
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 16:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Depresion
£8m on computers? They only have 2 dozen of them but they need to replace them
constantly as they keep getting stolen. ;)
And obviously the theives drove away slowly so the police wouldn't catch
them :-)
Cab
2003-08-06 15:46:54 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:24:08 +0100, "Phil Howard"
<***@ntlworld.com> bored us all completely to death with
wittery prose along the lines of:

<prolly snipped>
Haven't they just scrapped this type of system...Urban Protection Wardens,
^^^^^

I parsed that as 'Ursine' and thought of Bear Protection Wardens.
--
Cab :^) - Ormiga Atomica
GSX1400 - 'Tarts Handbag' (tm) Bike, dead 550/4 Rat
UKRMMA#10 (KoTL), IbW#015, Bob#4, POTM#3

P.S. Remove your_bollox from the cab. ICQ: 83023471

Newbies FAQ's at : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
My Page : http://www.rosbif.org/
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 16:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cab
I parsed that as 'Ursine' and thought of Bear Protection Wardens.
--
I parsed that as 'Urine' and thought of Beer Protection Wardens :-)
pete boyall
2003-08-06 19:38:28 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:51:00 +0100, "Not in my trousers"
<***@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Not in my trousers
prevent or investigate crime at all .. They could even recruit civilians to
wear bright yellow vests and wander about city centres for them looking like
policemen so that it looks as if the police actually have a presense. I can
<snip>

Already been done in London and Peterborough, if not elsewhere ...
--
Pete
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 20:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete boyall
<snip>
Post by Not in my trousers
prevent or investigate crime at all .. They could even recruit civilians to
wear bright yellow vests and wander about city centres for them looking like
policemen so that it looks as if the police actually have a presense. I can
<snip>
Already been done in London and Peterborough, if not elsewhere ...
--
Pete
Maybe one day they will even start giving the police laptops and PDAs so
they can do the forms electronically and even email each other about the
best places to trap motorists...

... but all this would be ridiculous!! I can't beleive our ever efficient
and capable police force would ever be replaced by technology and civillian
patrols ... It will never happen, they are far too efficient at detecting
burglaries and assaults and the resources they invest into detecting crimes
like these make them totally invaluable.. ;-}
sweller
2003-08-06 12:23:28 UTC
Permalink
In the highway code, it has a couple of sections about speed
limits.
They apply whether or not there is a speed camera around. You
were presumably informed of this when you for your driving test.
Just like me, you were in the wrong and you were nicked. It's
sickening and needlessly expensive, but you committed the offence.
Whilst I sypathise, can I suggest that you admit that it was you
who was in the wrong, you give up blaming the guy in the van for
your mistake, and you move on.
Butbutbut, that can't be right, that means taking the consequences for
our own actions.
--
Simon

Brighton | MYSOB: http://www.sweller.co.uk/sob/
England | MZSOB: http://www.mztech.fsnet.co.uk/
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 12:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on
the verge of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera
pointing out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I
hold my hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a
clean license and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as
I feel it is entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of
our camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
Chris
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3127351.stm

titter
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 12:33:29 UTC
Permalink
In the highway code, it has a couple of sections about speed limits.
They apply whether or not there is a speed camera around. You
were presumably informed of this when you for your driving test.
Just like me, you were in the wrong and you were nicked. It's sickening
and needlessly expensive, but you committed the offence. Whilst I
sypathise, can I suggest that you admit that it was you who was in the
wrong, you give up blaming the guy in the van for your mistake, and you
move on.
Was the van illegally parked BTW? .... Often they are ... Sometimes
dangerously around blind bends too ...

A friend of mine has a motor repair business and the police had a habit of
parking on his forecourt to set up speed traps.. We had words with them
several times about trespassing on his property and moved them on !!! :-)
R. Mark Clayton
2003-08-06 13:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
Sadly rather common. Sometimes they are disguised (e.g. orange lights on
top). In general treat any vehicle unusually stopped in a layby / verge,
especially with its doors open as a potential trap.

I once noticed a camera set up behind a wall on the A56 opposite a dire
crime ridden housing estate where a stolen car had been driven into back
gardens and torched only the week before.

Everytime one of the speeders came down the hill a bit too fast this WPC
would leap out and wave three fingers at them. I approached them on foot
and asked if they had considered turning the camera around and using it as a
burglar trap camera - long embarrassed silence.


PS If you liked your welcome in Wales as much as the recent rally, I would
advise you not to go back. I had a lying Welsh TC [falsely] claim I had
driven over double white lines once (I hadn't and he had!) and this is just
their police - look up the verb in a dictionary.
f0ul
2003-08-06 13:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on
the verge of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera
pointing out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I
hold my hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a
clean license and am not a fast driver any way
Deepest sympathies - the present obsession with pursuing minor motoring
offences at the expense of serious crime is little short of an outrage.
You might like to browse www.safespeed.org.uk for moral support.
What visitors to North Wales need to remember is that as an area it is
very low in real crime. Gwynedd and Anglesey together only have a
population similar to that of Warrington in Cheshire but with a
fraction of the crime level. This means they have the time to think
of ingenius ploys such as the one that caught you.

They were one of the first police forces outside London to get a
helecopter to play with. These are the same coppers who disappear
after 10pm on a weekend so they don't have to attend the domestic
arguments of the local population. Their Chief Constable thinks
speeding (travelling at say 40mph in a 30mph) is comparable to
stabbing someone (as in an act practiced by soilders for use on the
battlefield) - Can you see where the plot is going?

Basically, what North Wales needs is some proper crime to help keep
the Police busy. This will mean they will have no time to think of
ways of raising a few quid to pay for Laptops, petrol for the
helecopter and mobile speed cameras.

what are you waiting for?
Steve Walker
2003-08-06 14:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by f0ul
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on
the verge of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera
What visitors to North Wales need to remember is that as an area it is
very low in real crime. Gwynedd and Anglesey together only have a
population similar to that of Warrington in Cheshire but with a
fraction of the crime level. This means they have the time to think
of ingenius ploys such as the one that caught you.
They were one of the first police forces outside London to get a
helecopter to play with. These are the same coppers who disappear
after 10pm on a weekend so they don't have to attend the domestic
arguments of the local population. Their Chief Constable thinks
speeding (travelling at say 40mph in a 30mph) is comparable to
stabbing someone (as in an act practiced by soilders for use on the
battlefield) - Can you see where the plot is going?
Yes, it's going towards a transfer of resources from them to a more
needy area.
Gareth Slee
2003-08-06 14:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Anyone see Jeremy Clarkson in "Meet the Neighbours"?

He went out with some bloke with a speed-camera detector, found some police
hiding with a radar, so turned around and put a sign out reading "RADAR" in
big yellow letters. You could see the cars all start to slow down...!

Then just to take the píss, he went over and started taking photos of the
police... "They're taking photos of me, so I'll do the same"... They soon
packed up and left!!


--
Gareth Slee

http://www.garethslee.com
http://www.lapie.com
"chris" <***@nospam.com> wrote in message news:3f30d215$***@corp.newsgroups.com...
Wizard
2003-08-06 14:43:13 UTC
Permalink
In article <bgr3d2$r9jfo$***@ID-190837.news.uni-berlin.de>, Steve
Parry
Post by Gareth Slee
Anyone see Jeremy Clarkson in "Meet the Neighbours"?
He went out with some bloke with a speed-camera detector, found some
police hiding with a radar, so turned around and put a sign out
reading "RADAR" in big yellow letters. You could see the cars all
start to slow down...!
Then just to take the píss, he went over and started taking photos of
the police... "They're taking photos of me, so I'll do the same"...
They soon packed up and left!!
I was thinking of getting the digi camera out and doing the same ;o)
If it's the guy I'm thinking of, he's got a website here
http://www.tuftufclub.com/
but it's all single Dutch to me.
--
<8) Watford Wizard | Suzuki GS550E
COFF#24 BOTAFOT#138 STG#1 BREast#5 DFV#11 ANORAK#17

Remove the obvious to reply

"Be excellent to one another"
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 15:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wizard
If it's the guy I'm thinking of, he's got a website here
http://www.tuftufclub.com/
but it's all single Dutch to me.
Top right option on the menu ... translates it to English :-)
DO
2003-08-06 16:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Not in my trousers
Post by Wizard
If it's the guy I'm thinking of, he's got a website here
http://www.tuftufclub.com/
but it's all single Dutch to me.
Top right option on the menu ... translates it to English :-)
And speaking of such - just having a look at the site then this "gatso"
comes to me browser making me go WHOAH!

Loading Image...

http://www.tuftufclub.com/english/index.htm - 25-01-2003Big bang
New year's day has been an expensive party for the dutch government. And the
stock rates of Gatso went sky high.

Original page is http://www.tuftufclub.com/fotos/en_fotorepo.php?welke=248

All copyright et al to the above website and/or owners.
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 15:51:13 UTC
Permalink
I was thinking of getting the digi camera out and doing the same ;o)
Would people be seriously interested in this?

I am thinking we should set up a website of photos of the police not abiding
by the laws they are supposed to uphold...

Ie... Illegally parked police cars, copper taking a piss down a back
alley.. video clips of a copper giving a teenager a kicking etc .... There
is almost limitless amounts of material out there already .. Quite
disturbingly so infact :-(

I know this does nothing to help crime statistics but then neither does
spending ££££££ on speed cameras and helicopters in low crime rate areas and
at least it does bring it all into context....
dojj
2003-08-06 20:27:38 UTC
Permalink
last week the old bill parked a van like that down the road from me
on a grass verge
coming out of a 60 into a 30
and round the corner, there were about 20 plod pulling people over
as well as the bike they had to chase down people who wouldn't stop
the nearest houses to this stretch are at least half amile away
or a mile in the other direction
Post by Not in my trousers
I was thinking of getting the digi camera out and doing the same ;o)
Would people be seriously interested in this?
I am thinking we should set up a website of photos of the police not abiding
by the laws they are supposed to uphold...
Ie... Illegally parked police cars, copper taking a piss down a back
alley.. video clips of a copper giving a teenager a kicking etc .... There
is almost limitless amounts of material out there already .. Quite
disturbingly so infact :-(
I know this does nothing to help crime statistics but then neither does
spending ££££££ on speed cameras and helicopters in low crime rate areas and
at least it does bring it all into context....
Cane
2003-08-06 14:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of our
camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
I use a "Road Angel" Detector. It rocks and allows me to drive how I want.
--
cane [at] ukrm.org Š fireblade, r30
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 14:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cane
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on
the verge of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera
pointing out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I
hold my hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a
clean license and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me
as I feel it is entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of
our camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
I use a "Road Angel" Detector. It rocks and allows me to drive how I want.
I thought the Road Angel was a GPS system? How does that work with the mobile camera vans and the
guns?
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Ben Blaney
2003-08-06 15:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cane
I use a "Road Angel" Detector. It rocks and allows me to drive how I want.
"A quarter of a grand" LOL.

Having used Cane's motor, I can testify that the Road Angel is fucking
fantastic. So, sadly, I wasn't able to get the fucker any points.
--
Ben Blaney
GSF1200 VFR800 CBR600 CD200
"We stopped only for fuel"
Steve Parry
2003-08-06 14:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Still in Wales........
On Tuesday evening at around 6pm there was a
DVLA van on the A487 Portmaddoc to Caernarvon
road. Not sure if it was a speed check or something
else. It had a "video camera" on a tripod as well as
another lense lense type object poking out from an
aperature in the rear door.
The wife has good radar so he was spotted well in
advance. However, my ears are still ringing from
screams.
Kevin B
I guess thats the one ... either that or its the one that checks tax discs
--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com
Quarky
2003-08-06 15:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Is this
uk.slag.the.goverment.off
or
uk.rec.caravaning
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of our
camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
Chris
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Andrewr At Work
2003-08-06 15:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quarky
Is this
uk.slag.the.goverment.off
or
uk.rec.caravaning
Dunno, I was looking for uk.slag.caravans.off
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), Keeper of the TFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Ace
2003-08-06 15:51:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:39:17 +0000 (UTC), "Andrewr At Work"
Post by Andrewr At Work
Post by Quarky
Is this
uk.slag.the.goverment.off
or
uk.rec.caravaning
Dunno, I was looking for uk.slag.caravans.off
Can you believe that it's actually not there? My flabber is well
gasted, I can tell you!

Maybe we should start it...
--
Ace (bruce dot rogers at roche dot com)
GSX-R1000K3, CB400F2
BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, UKRMSPC#1, DFV#8, BOTCdV#1
Scott M
2003-08-06 15:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quarky
Is this
uk.slag.the.goverment.off
or
uk.rec.caravaning
I wonder if anyone's ever proposed uk.slag.off.caravanning...

;-)
--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Kevin B
2003-08-06 16:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott M
Post by Quarky
Is this
uk.slag.the.goverment.off
or
uk.rec.caravaning
I wonder if anyone's ever proposed uk.slag.off.caravanning...
;-)
There is no such thing as a caravan....
The official term is...... Tin Tent.

Kevin B
Not in my trousers
2003-08-06 16:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin B
There is no such thing as a caravan....
The official term is...... Tin Tent.
Is that a sort of large anorak?
Quarky
2003-08-06 16:51:30 UTC
Permalink
and all the bowl of Petunias could say was...

ohh no, not another shed-dragger
...
Post by Not in my trousers
Post by Kevin B
There is no such thing as a caravan....
The official term is...... Tin Tent.
Is that a sort of large anorak?
Andy Wegg
2003-08-06 15:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Gavin Whittaker muttered
Do you know what struck me? I came to the conclusion that I had committed
the offence and it was a fair cop. The officer involved had no idea what I
was normally like as a driver, so why should I expect any different?
SNIP

Whoooosh!

I hope your powers of observation and deduction as a driver are better
than those you display as a usenet user.

--
AW
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
gill107
2003-08-06 16:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on
the verge of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera
pointing out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I
hold my hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a
clean license and am not a fast driver any way
Deepest sympathies - the present obsession with pursuing minor motoring
offences at the expense of serious crime is little short of an outrage.
You might like to browse www.safespeed.org.uk for moral support.
----------------------------------
Or find out where they are sited www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk

Gillian
bowtiejim
2003-08-06 19:55:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of our
camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
Chris
I.'ve never met Mr Sprrd and as far as I know he nevel kills anybody!

What kills is a momentary lack of attention by a driver, rider and in towns
and villagesor, a pedestrian. .

Our local Inquisition, alias Casualty Reduction Partnership, claims its
speed cameras cut serious injuries and deaths, but not as much according to
the TRL as warning signs which remind drivers and riders when they are
exceeding the limit in force. I don't understand the psychology, but could
it be that the cameras despite now being painted brighter colours are not
always seen until too late and a hurried application of the brakes generates
an incident. Whereas the flashing warning signs result in a net increase in
concentration and therefore a greater reduction in the number of accidents
(For those that don't know, the TRL found that cameras reduced death and
serious injuries by 17% whereas flashing warning signs did so by 34%. Our
Chief Inquisitor when confronted with these truths said that the TRL had got
their facts wrong and they couldn't be true!)

The trouble is of course that cameras cost £50,000 each with yearly
maintenance of about 10% which is paid for out of the fines levied.
Flashing warning signs cost only £7,000 each with negligible maintenance- so
negligible that the Inquisition won't bother to repair them when they do go
wrong.

Speed plays a part in the severity of injuries sustained in an accident, but
it is rarely the cause. Lack of concentration for whatever reason, poor
road design (I look forward to someone sueing the Highways Agency on that
one) and the influience of alcohol and drugs are the some of the causes, but
this Government has not got the will to implement the necessary campaigns
to correct this especially while it is able to pick the motorist's pocket.
Depresion
2003-08-06 20:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by bowtiejim
Post by bowtiejim
I.'ve never met Mr Sprrd and as far as I know he nevel kills anybody!
What kills is a momentary lack of attention by a driver, rider and in
towns
Post by bowtiejim
and villagesor, a pedestrian. .
Our local Inquisition, alias Casualty Reduction Partnership, claims its
speed cameras cut serious injuries and deaths, but not as much according
to
Post by bowtiejim
the TRL as warning signs which remind drivers and riders when they are
exceeding the limit in force. I don't understand the psychology, but
could
Post by bowtiejim
it be that the cameras despite now being painted brighter colours are not
always seen until too late and a hurried application of the brakes
generates
Post by bowtiejim
an incident. Whereas the flashing warning signs result in a net increase
in
Post by bowtiejim
concentration and therefore a greater reduction in the number of accidents
(For those that don't know, the TRL found that cameras reduced death and
serious injuries by 17% whereas flashing warning signs did so by 34%. Our
Chief Inquisitor when confronted with these truths said that the TRL had
got
Post by bowtiejim
their facts wrong and they couldn't be true!)
The trouble is of course that cameras cost £50,000 each with yearly
maintenance of about 10% which is paid for out of the fines levied.
Flashing warning signs cost only £7,000 each with negligible maintenance-
so
Post by bowtiejim
negligible that the Inquisition won't bother to repair them when they do
go
Post by bowtiejim
wrong.
Speed plays a part in the severity of injuries sustained in an accident,
but
Post by bowtiejim
it is rarely the cause. Lack of concentration for whatever reason, poor
road design (I look forward to someone sueing the Highways Agency on that
one) and the influience of alcohol and drugs are the some of the causes,
but
Post by bowtiejim
this Government has not got the will to implement the necessary campaigns
to correct this especially while it is able to pick the motorist's
pocket.
You don't get it do you? ...
They don't want motorists to slow down .. The sign costs £7000 and earns no
revenue whatsover ... The camera costs £50000 but soon pays for itself
providing it is strategically placed, not necessarily in an accident
blackspot area but where motorists are likely to be speeding .
30mph in a 30mph zone can be too fast under some circumstances (shopping
street, school entrance at home-time etc) so it is not the speed itself that
is dangerous but the way it is used. Cameras are more likely to be used to
catch the most drivers possible.
On a note about this there's a stretch of NSL road (well 1/2 of it is now a 50)
but on one end it goes into a 30 zone with houses on one side set well back
from the road and nothing on the other, at the other end of the road it heads
into a 30 zone with houses and a pub on both sides set back from the road
by very thin (less than 2 foot) wide pavements. At the end with lots of room
there's a speed camera at then end in a very tight village a flashing sign (that
lights up well before you get to the 30 limit).

I wonder how there came to the decision to put a light up sign at the end
which can only be described as more dangerous and a camera at the other?
Niall
2003-08-06 22:44:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Depresion
in a very tight village a flashing sign (that
lights up well before you get to the 30 limit).
I have noticed this tendancy. The initial installations of these speed
sensitive signs lit up only if you crossed the 30 limit signs over the
limit. More recent ones all seem to pick you up at a distance. The
ones in Fife start flashing at a point well before I even have to lift
off to be doing 30 at the signs, without braking at all.

Either the implementers don't realise that these things which are very
effective when triggered at the right point are rapidly going to be
totally ignored if they cry wolf all the time, or it's a deliberate
attempt to devalue them because unlike speed cameras they don't
generate revenue.

--
Niall
Depresion
2003-08-06 20:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by bowtiejim
The trouble is of course that cameras cost £50,000 each with yearly
maintenance of about 10% which is paid for out of the fines levied.
Flashing warning signs cost only £7,000 each with negligible maintenance-
so
Post by bowtiejim
negligible that the Inquisition won't bother to repair them when they do
go
Post by bowtiejim
wrong.
so why not put a flashing camera sign thing in front of the camera?
guaranteed slowing down :)
Good point as that has been shown to have the best results in slowing
down motorists.
Guy King
2003-08-06 20:41:59 UTC
Permalink
...cameras despite now being painted brighter colours are not
always seen until too late and a hurried application of the brakes generates
an incident.
Is there any published evidence of significant numbers of accidents
caused by this?
--
Skipweasel:- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you
want it to.
Ann Onymous
2003-08-06 21:27:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy King
...cameras despite now being painted brighter colours are not
always seen until too late and a hurried application of the brakes generates
an incident.
Is there any published evidence of significant numbers of accidents
caused by this?
--
Skipweasel:- There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you
want it to.
Isn't this the longest thread we've had in uk.rec.caravanning for a while?
Dave Dew
2003-08-06 21:47:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ann Onymous
Isn't this the longest thread we've had in uk.rec.caravanning for a while?
Yes, but only because we have been joined by the 'boy racers' who object to
getting nicked because they are not burglars.
You have to laugh.

Dave Dew.
Nigel Eaton
2003-08-06 22:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Using the patented Mavis Bacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Dave Dew
Post by Dave Dew
Post by Ann Onymous
Isn't this the longest thread we've had in uk.rec.caravanning for a while?
Yes, but only because we have been joined by the 'boy racers' who object to
getting nicked because they are not burglars.
You have to laugh.
Ah! He's a road louse. That explains everything.
--
Nigel
WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20

ZZR1100 and Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner" (No , I'm
not sure how that happened either).
Depresion
2003-08-06 22:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Dew
Post by Ann Onymous
Isn't this the longest thread we've had in uk.rec.caravanning for a while?
Yes, but only because we have been joined by the 'boy racers' who object to
getting nicked because they are not burglars.
Isn't that object to not having the burglars nicked?

I know I do over the last 10 years both my parents houses were broken into as was
my car, did the police catch them, no. Did they even bother to come out and do any
investigations on one of them, no. Did they put up a dozen cameras on some of the
safest roads within a few miles of my house yes. Only one is situated close to an
accident spot and there hadn't been an accident there in a few years since they changed
the road layout.
Niall
2003-08-06 22:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy King
...cameras despite now being painted brighter colours are not
always seen until too late and a hurried application of the brakes generates
an incident.
Is there any published evidence of significant numbers of accidents
caused by this?
Dunno about published, but the number of drivers who suddenly brake to
10 mph below the limit every time they spot a camera is staggering,
and that's got to be dangerous.
It's bloody annoying, I know that, when I'm trundling down a quiet
dual carriageway in my van at the 60 mph it is happy to do and is the
legal limit for that vehicle / road combination, when I catch up with
40 mph man dawdling along the inside being overtaken at 80+ by BMW
man, pull out behind BMW man who then spots the dayglo striped speed
camera which has only been clearly visible for the last mile and
stands on the middle pedal. Then he clears the calibration marks on
the road and scoots off into the distance. Leaving me to wait while 70
PS slowly persuades 2.5 tonnes of brick like aerodynamics back up to
60.
Whatever the camera achieves in all this, it ain't increased safety.
I keep meaning to carry a charged camera flash to give them a double
flash so they think they misjudged it, but most of them lay off any
camera tickets they do get onto their wife/ secretary/ junior employee
etc anyway. Hmm, a law which doesn't affect rich bastards, sounds like
Mr. Blair's kind of thing.
--
Niall
Niall
2003-08-06 22:44:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:55:12 +0100, "bowtiejim"
Post by bowtiejim
Our local Inquisition, alias Casualty Reduction Partnership, claims its
speed cameras cut serious injuries and deaths, but not as much according to
the TRL as warning signs which remind drivers and riders when they are
exceeding the limit in force.
I wonder if your CRP misuses statistics as badly as
www.camerascutcrashes.com which plasters its claims all over the back
of Glasgow buses that "Serious or fatal injuries fell by 67% at sites
where cameras were installed".
Note the "at sites..."
Of course they did. Serious crashes are not all that common taken
across the whole country. So if you take *one particular spot* the
chances of there being a serious accident at that spot in any given
period is very small. The fact that there was an accident before they
put the camera there makes no statistical difference to the likelyhood
of another one occurring. ISTR they used to say 95%, it's my guess
that given the small actual numbers, 1 further crash occurred.
--
Niall
John
2003-08-06 22:48:54 UTC
Permalink
"chris" wrote in message
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of our
camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
Chris
Look at http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/schedule/ next time you go to North
Wales, for scheduled locations of camera vans. Also the DVLA vans seem to be
around now in NW>
John
Alan
2003-08-07 02:46:12 UTC
Permalink
In message <3f30d215$***@corp.newsgroups.com>, chris <***@nospam.com>
writes
Post by chris
after holidaying on Anglesey recently I noticed a van parked up on the verge
of the A5 porthaethwy/menai bridge Anglesey
it was disguised as a delivery van but I noticed there was a camera pointing
out of the back I forgot all about it until I returned home
and opened my mail to discover a speeding fine £60 and 3 points .I hold my
hands up yes I must of been speeding bit annoyed as I have a clean license
and am not a fast driver any way this has annoyed me as I feel it is
entrapment and in the police letter sent it states
"we use all means available to us to advise motorists and riders of our
camera locations"
obviously the man in the van wasn't informed of this
Chris
Obviously you are a sad twat on two counts, holidaying in Anglesey,
number one and number two posting the above crap on a newsgroup.

Dickhead.


Snowman

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